i just said that was one point of the issue

but the biggest point id make is that more profit now might hurt a country down the line

So whats the argument about so we stay in line?

In what way?

Compared to what also?

Talk about moving the goalposts. China's eagerness to starve its own people is an economic advantage to be exploited if we choose to trade with them, but a moral crisis if we choose not to trade with them?

No, I'm saying the moral argument against Chinese trade is nonsensical

Because the alternative to a shit job with no other options is no job

then why not Vietnam?

or misc. country

That's a false dilemma.

That was brought up earlier as well

For the Chinese to improve they must innovate

Look at the industrial revolution

They can get innovation through property aka patons

*rights

Thats the point of Made in China 2025

The alternative to a shitty job is a less shitty job if the environment for creating less shitty jobs exists.

?

Can you prove that such an environment exists?

They must innovate to get better jobs

The west isnt the problem

We don't have to prove that it exists, just that it's possible.

>36% of the Chinese working population is in sweatshops

Lolwut

what does that have to do with anything?

"We don't have to prove that an alternative for these people exists to make the moral argument that they shouldn't have the job they do"

🤔

what?

No economic policy will help China if they cant recognize human rights

@m1 devpav in charge of trying to salvage the moral argument

the moral argument is valid

It isn't

but its not the whole thing

That wasn't a moral argument, it was an economic theory argument.

both are valid

I you want to help China refer back to the industrial revolution

The only one making a moral argument is Beemann, in the bizarre claim that the poor Chinese people for some reason won't figure out what to do with themselves if their export sector shrinks.

I just want to trade with China if they can trade fairly. I have nothing against the Chinese people either, and view nobody above another. But if China cant help themselves to not steal IP, or for unfair business practices. I think it best we increase tariffs at the expense of lower profits to fix the systemic issue. And I think the EU needs to pick anything to do

>the only one making a moral argument is Beemann
M1 made it initially, with the slavery comment

And then said it's still valid lol