Look at how they've changed within faiths over time

that's because people change it.

If you took the word of god then it wouldn't change.

the Christian bible is proof of that

Cuz it deviated from the Jewish book

well behaviorally

@CreativeRealms prove is nebulous, but you can absolutely hold non subjectivity as someone who isn't religious

If we took the word of god, then Christianity wouldn't exist, cuz it would still be Judaeism

theres a pretty simple principle to determine a semi objective form of morality

If you took the 'word of god' you wouldnt be able to mix certain fabrics, or eat shellfish to my understanding

teh golden rule

unfortunately

Yup

which golden rule?

every has their own subjective standard of what they objectivley consider morally unacceptable

Golden rule is pretty good, its what they teach kids in school here

"Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself"

dont do to others what you wouldnt want done to yourself

Would most people want to be aborted?

^positive and negative affirmation versions

oh that rule, that rule is dumb

If i treat you as an enemy, i'd want you to kill me cuz i'm your enemy

So i get to kill you

But if you don't agree, you wont fight me until its too late

ayyyy lmao nope

yeah i mean the base for it is subjective

but the principles birthed out of it are objective

It's a simple concept, i think its pretty good for teaching to kids.

The way to get around that is just to not see fetuses as people and suddenly it's not a morality issue.

in terms of measuring

I improved that golden rule years ago

"Treat others as you would expect to be treated, if the positiosn were reversed"

That way you also take into factor where they come from

Is abortion a moral good though? Or just an unfortunate compromise given biological parameters?

abortion is good period. everyone should be aborted

Edgy

if the left is for abortions

does that mean they are for the mass post birth abortion tool know as nukes???

and that they should alll drop immediately

recreational morning after nukes now!

^proof the left supports genocide

Thumbs up for turning not yet viable fetuses to mush.
Thumbs down for turning people into red glass.

Actually the golden rule was gotten around by dehumanizing anyone you wanted to do bad things to. Want to genocide a bunch of people? Call them animals and then morality isn't applied.

exactly

It's not really "gotten around" though

Because dehumanizing already breaks it

yeah and to get to that point someone subjectivley percived them as non human

If it's subjective then yes it's getting around it.

thats why mines is better, cuz you swap the status of power

"How would you feel if the person in power would abuse you"
You wouldn't, so don't abuse them if you're in power

So the people who dehumanize others would want to be dehumanized?

If they don't see them as human it doesn't matter to them.

Well, that works, so long as the person has a strong sense of fairness/honor.

And stops working the moment they dont.

@Dr.Wol that's already implied by the initial wording

no, the issue with the golden rule is that no one is bound to it

I meant your example

Sure, but nobody is bound to do the good thing either way

https://i.imgur.com/JgD29Nd.png

If i go be gay in Saudi Arabia, and let other people there be, they'll still kill me because they don't agree to that

yeah but nobody is bound to morality

Even if there was an objective moral framework

in the first place

You aren't bound to the golden rule unless there is a higher power of some kind. If there isn't than everything is subjective.

well what im saying is

Even if there is a higher power you clearly aren't bound

at that point its anarchy

Wot

that your framework from how you perceive morality is subjective

If you can do what you want and i can do what i want,

The only thing stopping us is us not killing each other

but the actual tangible point brithed out fo that standard are objective

in terms of

Well there can be more factors with you still not really being forced eh

i dont want to be killed

Like there are laws against murder but people still do it

so killing is bad (generally

)

There's no high level compulsion there

its about morality

not actions

No matter what, people are still free to make moral judgements, even if theyre wrong

Morality and actions are linked

yeah but morality deals with matter of tangible objective actions

Because morality is a metric by which one judges actions

Yes morality doesn't prevent free will.

And I would say the reverse is also true

so to that point it is objective

like

ontologically its objective

epistemologically its subjective

so as far as youre trying to look at a larger resolution big picture kind of thing

it becomes more and more degrees of subjective

the more precice u make it the more objective it can be

Nah, because it still results in disparity of actions

In the end it all boils down to where you want to draw the line if you won't let religion define the line for you.

It just becomes harder to measure

yes, and who gets to draw that line?

I would take the Peterson stance of: you can draw the line where you want, but it won't change the results of your choices

AYY ur own brain

that is true Bee

Well if it's not a religious line then it's subjective and anyone can draw it wherever.

ie the objective part of the equation i was talkign about

I would say the results are a determinant of the value of your moral system

lol well

if u die

youre objectively dead

I dont see the problem with people drawing their own lines in the sand.