go ahead

just one

give an effective method who used?

what do they do well

can u you be more specific please

how are they better?

how are socialist countries better besides being ranked better in most metrics by organizations that rank healthcare systems?

i dont see how sarcasm helps you in being polite

that's fair sorry I get frustrated sometimes

but how are they better, ranking doesnt do shit

doesn't help my case I know

not here

they're ranked by how they are better... idk what you're saying

they're ranked, based on how effective they are

how are universal healthcare systems better

therefore... they are more effective

how are they ranked then

by patient scoreing?

cost, quality of care, and efficiency of care

hang on lemme get the exact metrics how about that

alright quality of care

how is universal better?

cost, quality of care, and efficiency of care

quality of care how is it better under universal

ideally quality of care is the same, and the other two are improved, meaning those three things, cost, quality of care, and efficiency of care, are improved as a whole

because you don't have diff doctors right

alright how is universal more effective if you have the same doctor

cost

cost doesnt mean efficient

cost is different

no, it means cost

then why aren't they one stat

because they are diff things?

because last I checked when I was in England, Obama care was pretty trash

what is your argument @Alix

expensive

same doctor maybe

I never denied that

and what was obama care

that was in my thesis earlier

what was obama care? the ACA?

you ask me a lot of questions

makes it hard to answer any of them comprehensively

and makes me be on the defense always

vaguest question I have ever heard

obama care was universal

why do the countries with universal healthcare supposedly work

no, it was not

obamacare was a complete failure

cost, quality of care, and efficiency of care

obamacare, the ACA, was a program made by Mitt Romney and adapted by Obama and agreed upon by senate and house republicans

it has been disappointing to many because of rising premiums

but has also covered millions of additional americans

so it's complicated

and needs work

yeah, so you agree it was a failure

no, I don't

I think it needs work

the dems passed it without reading it

I'm sure some dems did

but they deliberated on it for a long time

the lobbiests did, the congress didnt

and all of the socialized systems arent expensive, outside of taxes being outrageous, quality of care well thats down to doctors, and efficiency isnt cost it is how well you are treated for the cost

and that cost is too high

I meant efficiency for an average citizen to get care. obviously canada is an example of how it doesn't work efficiently, but canada is also often ranked around the us in terms of efficiency so it's not a great comparison for a shining example of socialized healthcare

well how about uuuuu Norway

high ass taxes

extreme some might say

just because of universal healthcare

healthcare costs in the US are more expensive than in norway

as of 2010

but for the average Norwegian, its high as shite

higher for americans tho

in comparison

yes

I earn $300 almost thirty of it gone to taxes, around 45% gone to taxes in norway

though less money

higher percentage

ok, doesn't seem like an issue then

not seeing your point

because the average norwegian makes less

but more money is gone

mhm, and has to pay less because hospital visits are free

but how often do they visit the hospital?

well, it's one of those things that disproportionately affects a small group of sick people right

like some people really need it, but not a huge percentage

so the median vs average diff is going to be big

not the vast majority

no definitely not

but the minority is really in need ya feel, that's just how medicine works

It costs more for almost all Norwegians to accomodate hospital visits for those that need it

yup, socialized

helping the weak and in need

because it's kind to do

a disproportionate amount of their money

gone

and for some, a disproportionate amount of their money saved

because that's the luck of the draw right?

because the sicker cannot afford, and could do other things to make money and save it

could they