Which type of engineering?

someone who has a bachelors degree compared to someone who studied at home for 3-4 years

mech, civ, elec, whatever

I still don't think that's a fair comparison.

You are not expected to just take someone's word for what they have done at home for 4 years.

but you won't get experience without the degree, which is my point. how can you learn at a firm without getting hired first? how can you get hired without the degree

You are still comparing someone who is trying to get their first job without a degree to someone with a degree.

the person with a degree is also trying to get their first job

I don't think that's fair. There are many ways you can get work experience that an employer can rely on.

maybe i didn't make that clear

And if there is no way, it is usually because the government prohibits it, not because one could not learn it themselves.

i agree

but that is also my point

there are some industries in which a degree is required

due to public safety

Well, yes, there are chicken and egg situations then.

Catch 22s.

Which is why I hate fields that are regulated in those ways.

I have had excellent software engineers and mechanical engineers who didn't have a degree.

Or, they said that their college/university was completely useless.

I have a degree and I found it a waste of time.

yeah, that's definitely possible

I learned maybe 5% of what I know in college.

oh for sure

And that's being generous.

most of what you learn is in the field

but you still need the fundamentals to get to that next step

Right. So ... aren't we on the same page then?

kind of

because you still need that 5% to get that first job

which is where the degree comes in

The problem is if they have nothing to show but their word that they learned something at home.

as proof that you know that 5%

But there are many, many ways you can address that.

For example, I like people with coding competitions on their resume.

i think there are the more experience you have but not if two candidates are green

A lot of people who come out of college can't code for shit.

I have had PhD grads who couldn't implement a QuickSort.

that's surprising

At least not in an interview setting.

It's not surprising, because most of the time in college is being spent catching the least experienced up to speed.