Catch 22s.

Which is why I hate fields that are regulated in those ways.

I have had excellent software engineers and mechanical engineers who didn't have a degree.

Or, they said that their college/university was completely useless.

I have a degree and I found it a waste of time.

yeah, that's definitely possible

I learned maybe 5% of what I know in college.

oh for sure

And that's being generous.

most of what you learn is in the field

but you still need the fundamentals to get to that next step

Right. So ... aren't we on the same page then?

kind of

because you still need that 5% to get that first job

which is where the degree comes in

The problem is if they have nothing to show but their word that they learned something at home.

as proof that you know that 5%

But there are many, many ways you can address that.

For example, I like people with coding competitions on their resume.

i think there are the more experience you have but not if two candidates are green

A lot of people who come out of college can't code for shit.

I have had PhD grads who couldn't implement a QuickSort.

that's surprising

At least not in an interview setting.

It's not surprising, because most of the time in college is being spent catching the least experienced up to speed.

They actually teach you how to program in the first few semesters, which is a huge waste of time for the kids who wrote their first lines in basic at 12 years old or so.

those kinds of competitions definitely help but i'm specifically looking at comparing two people getting their first job. the degree definitely gives you a boost

Well, it gives you a boost compared to having no degree, but I didn't think that's what you were referring to.

in your case, would you be able to give them a coding problem and ask them to solve it in an interview

it was

so, we kind of agree

*compared to the same person having no degree

yup

after that, experience is more important. i'm in agreement with that

But I will still stick to my original point: going to college for things you can learn at home is a terrible way to learn, by and large, nowadays.

i agree with that

because you can definitely learn that stuff on your own

And I am so insistent on that, not just because I want to be argumentative, but because I hugely resent the time I wasted in college.

but the degree is (supposed to be lol) the proof that you're competent

Well, it's not anymore.

The candidates with only college degree have been terrible, most of the time.