how not? @Salacious Swanky Cat even in a materialistic view, you want to act in your own self interest. doing things that hurt others can be harmful to you, too, which is where you can derive the majority of morals from

if you look at Life expectancy and how they could try and make people be more readily available . gay people would be a hindrance to a tribe or a Civilization whos main export is expansion

And a lot of wrong-doing will make you enemies. It's more beneficial to be good than bad.

^^

Yup

There are selfish reasons to be "good".

true

@GoldenPhoenix that presupposes that something benefits and harms. How can you make a value judgment of anything if everything is just a bunch of chemical reactions.

but that goes to individual choices. that we cant control

@Walsp especially when there is supposed to be as many descendants as grains of sand and what not

to back up Phoenix point, its generally ill-advised to hurt others who have potential support networks. Increases the chances someone hurts you in return. not good if you want to keep your stuff intact

Ask hitler

If I steal from somebody and they kick me in the abdomen for it. Maybe I shouldn't have stolen...

he learned the hard way

That's basic utilitarianism in a barbaric societt

I find it fucking Retarted in our time when we have longer life expectancy that we can afford to have these Anomalys in our society and that Africa out of all the other continents all its countries that are Puritanical or islamic jail and kill gay people. i dont know whats worse . the Purists in Africa that jail them or the islamics who behead them.

@Grenade123 or the Hatfields and Mcoys

@Salacious Swanky Cat now you're supposing that all of reality is moot and we may as well not try to act in it, since it won't matter anyway. to refute that: it's a trick of nature to be self preserving, even if it's not considered good or bad, it's advantageous or disadvantageous. all of nature works this way

the US government and the Unibomber

who am i kidding, us government never learns

In more enlightened societies, like capitalistic countries, it's ethics because you would be responsible for problems within businesses; like lost profits because of a lack of sales.

@GoldenPhoenix no. It shows that the materialistic worldview isn’t complete. It’s incorrect. You can’t establish any morals from a materialistic worldview. That’s the point. Morality is based on what God has commanded.

It's the same principle behind laws requiring driver's licenses and insurance in order to operate a motor vehicle on the roads.

@Walsp well when you jail a group based on ideology, fighting back in the future is probably more possible

Morals were never meant to be with Materialistic usage

Money will always be money

It's about how beneficial it is to society as a whole.

@LittleGiantJ utilitarianism is a failed ideology.

@ExceptionalFeather yes

@Salacious Swanky Cat. How so?

the Word never . you only do NEVER is when money is involved

With anything related to Family or Friends

@Salacious Swanky Cat I agree with you that morality is based in deity, but I'm saying it doesn't have to be. true materialism treats everything as a simulation, and if there's no free will and it's all chemicals, the results will be the same

Not always based on Deity

so Buddhists have no morals?

buddhists?

Morality is not linked to Religion

@LittleGiantJ if utilitarianism is about benefiting the most people, where does that leave the minority? Oppressed. Under utilitarianism, you can’t treat everyone equally.

hindus? one of those indo-china religions has no gods

What is seen as Moral is different culture wide

I believe in absolute morality in conjunct with social morality