Message from @Eoppa
Discord ID: 690023218379358217
I do not understand what you said
I personally find that argument rather unconvincing and similar to the Lockean explanation. If the causal laws that determine the flow of water are determining your actions it isn't free will imo.
@Eoppa Do you reject determinism?
Cause and Effect
Not necessarily, I define my causal laws that everything that is in act receives its act from itself or from another.
I've taken a Thomistic approach that I sort of developed myself
In that there are plenty of things in the world that are more qualia than a physical relation. In the same way God can cause our free will by causing it's existence, yet we maintain our own causal power that isn't necessarily determined by that initial cause by God.
Comparing God, Time itself and all that we could and could never thought of will never be anything big if it were to be presenced
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@Eoppa There is something deeply unsettling about seeing a christian argue that God isn't the first cause of all things
That's not what I'm arguing, I'm rectifying a hard first cause with free will
You said that humans maintain causal power that is not determined by God
It's much more nuanced than I can fit into a paragraph
:/
It's what it reads like
I'm saying that free will is caused by God. From there the sort of 'qualia' if you could call it that of Free will is our choice. That's a horrible explanation, but it might convey the message a bit.
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But you maintain that God does not cause the things that humans cause by their free will?
Think of a red object for example. When you cause something to be red, all these wavelengths and cones are all caused by the formal and material causes. But the actual qualia of red is something confined to the intellect.
I maintain God does not directly determine our choices
But you also maintain that God is the cause of all things because God caused free will?
God can interfere in our affairs but He does not always
Its not God's plan that a baby is aborted after all
Yes, our choices and actions are simply the result of our free will.
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seems weak
I don't think so
Remember Adam and Eve?
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Also I hate when you mention the names of all those big shot philosophers because I have no idea what they said
Even if I've read some of them
> I don't think so
@Eoppa That's *confirmation bias* <:smug:591181720565579807>
~~all Christians should read Nietzsche~~
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Well Molina formulated the idea that all of our choices are free but God puts us in situations that he knows we will make certain choices to complete God's plan.
I say I don't think so because I understand my idea better than I can communicate it
So we have free will but we are in a rat maze and it's certain that we'll follow the cheese?
That's what he said
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And I maintain the intellect is immaterial, but is strongly influenced by the material, but the free will and intellect is incorporeal
Cool explanation, it has the advantage of explaining free will and the "disadvantage" of keeping the deathly dread of determinism