😑

is there a difference between me and you?

thats not what i mean and you know it

But both influence each other, yes?

well I have no idea what you mean now

because you're saying the individual and society are identical

i think you do and just refuse to admit you understand

and yet when I ask about my decisions as an individual, you say those are not the decisions of society!

so clearly, by your own line of reasoning I am not equivalent to society

because otherwise, you would have let me continue with my "what if I don't have children" example

consider the macro scale then

what if the entire society does what you do

it dies out

it fails

okay what if I don't care

why should I care?

then you literally do not belong in any society at all

if I planned to kill myself, I probably don't care

This comes down, again, to why a succesfful society is necesssarily better than a failed society?

By definition

because the 5 percepts seem to presuppose that a successful society is superior

Success is superior to failure by definition

no absolutely not

think sports

think the holocaust 😂

sometimes failure is superior to success by our metrics

A first place swimmer is a superior swimmer to a second place swimmer

i mean

a failed holocaust is superior to a successful one

or do you disagree?

the holoshoahgorilioncaust didnt happen

oh well you're a fascist so bad example

yeah

how about my plan to kill all fascists

is a success better than a failure there?

this is more than the utilitarian philosophy that is might makes right

this has nothing to do with that

lets say the six bazillion did die

we're arguing over whether success > failure or not

and I think I've given an example where this is not the case

nazi germany then would have been in violation of NML