how does that not go in your brain

if we talk about infinity then it has always been there and theres nothing logically proving this

that it cant be infinity

Yeah you are just mentally handicapped

@Eoppa you can take on this hole if you have the patience

all youre saying is if you have a finite timeline there has to be a start and im saying but were talking about infinity

im out

I never mentioned time..

I never mentioned cosmology

I mentioned ONTOLOGY

I mentioned HIERARCHICAL structure of change

NOT linear

dont even know tf that means

just because the idea of an infinite timeline doesnt make sense in our brain doesnt mean it cant be like that

Ok then dont speak bs and instead ask me to elaborate

well this just makes no sense

No i never said "it makes no sense thus impossible"

I said its ILLOGICAL thus its impossible

i still dont believe that theres no starting point.

Do you know the difference between a heirarchical structure and linear structure of change?

its just whatever i dont even think we were talking about the same thing

and no

its not important if you argue scientifically

well maybe it does

Hierarchical structure of change is that under which if the cause ceases the exist, so does the effect

Now, IF you don't have a phone, can you give me a phone?

You see how the begining says "IF you dont have a phone" - so no, the answer cant be "well what if the phone has always existed"

that makes sense

ok, so you agree that you cant give X if you dont have x

yes

Okay

so basically it goes like this if i have a phone i can dial a number if i dial a number i can call someone

but if i dont have the phone nothing happens at all

not go backwards

yes

i want to dial a number so i need a phone if i want a phone i need to buy one if i want to buy something i need money

so without money this all wouldnt have happened

okay cool

p3 If no member has independent mode of power in itself, then no member can transfer its mode of power to another
Do you now understand what is meant by premise 3? To transfer your mode of power to another, you must have it to begin with, but if you don't have it, you cannot transfer

I do get it now

i mean we are back at the start