by what matric?

Yes do they shorten the lifetime of society's, reduce happiness?

What metric

How do we quantify the amount of hurt for society?

longevity success and happiness

more children bring more success

this happened in Europe and will happen in Africa

that has yet to be demonstrated. And I can say that it hurts society to ban abortion by my own metrics.

why?

child is far more likely to be beneficial

Because it does. My metric is "freedom from unwanted pregnancy"

I might value this more than any potential venefit

your matric isn't societal matric

Sure it is

if your moral code says murder is ok

The degree to which people in a society can get an abortion is a societal metric.

I put you in jail after acting on it

Your definition of murder.

most

No not the dictionary's

people just add an exception

Murder is usually defined as a legal term.

Unlawful killing.

I don't care if murder is ok in my system.

laws are meant to facilitate these things not make them

I can live with that, so can society.

that's why most laws have been based on religion through history

Religion is pretty dumb though <:really:591181753625083905>

laws are just facilitation of the greater moral code and I say right now it has a contradiction

it was an important construct for objective rights and moral codes

Of course, so let's rectify those contradictions in favor of abortion rights

favor let's hear you

But rights and morals aren't objective, you seemed to agree when you defined rights earlier

Actually no, you didn't

I suppose your definition of rights isn't objective, but it covers very little. And the decision to care about rights, or value rights remains subjective.

they are biologically objective but we are humans and we have done it by testing as we aren't God and need to reach objectivism slowly

^

Biologically?

How can I disagree then?

It doesn't seem biolgoically hard wired.

If I as a human don't agree with these that is.