pros/cons exist in every form of thought

Ye it’s just the au you said it’s

way you said it

cool

I will be honest, the demographics of who gets abortions is the main reason I support it. I'm 100% a pragmatist. More babies born to single black mothers would very much be bad news. Ignoring late term abortions, which simply should not be allowed. No lives are ruined as you can give up the child for adoption and if one's life WAS somehow ruined as a result, it would be because of their actions. " I did something that predictably necessitates the killing of a human to prevent my life from being negatively impacted so let me kill them." Nah. In no way is this like self defense and that's a bit of a "whataboutery".

@Shadowstitcher11 The baby is fully formed and living by 24 weeks. If they were raped, they need to abort the child before that or yes i think it’s murder after 24 weeks.

It's not whataboutism @t r u e , I was specifically giving an example of a moment in which cost/benefit needs to be analyzed, not saying that something as obvious as a self defense is directly analogous to an abortion. It's a subtle distinction but I appreciate you wanting clarification. I meant this: just as no one wants to kill someone in self defense, but a quick analysis shows that to sometimes be the right course of action, no one wants to abort a fetus, but sometimes an in-depth analysis (as the situation necessitates it) shows that to be the right course of action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV_pKXkZmTY&t=

right to abortion is a human right

this is great @Fabiano love it

ikr

I just got into chapo bcuz of the episode with natalie wynn

they're goofy it's fun

contrapoints is a great channel, everyone check it out

^^^^^^^

I want contrapoints to call me daddy and pour milk all over me

you can quote me on that

@wahx Every decision is basically a cost/benefit analysis. If killing is self defense was to be compared to abortion, the only thing remotely comparable would be abortion where the mother's life is at risk. I support abortion in that case. I just disagree with applying analogy that to non-life threatening pregnancies.

I think you're not considering the big picture. A mother who can healthily carry a child to term may not be able to provide for that child, forcing it into poverty with the mother or into an orphanage, putting stress on society. There's a lot more to consider than just the mother's health. So if you weigh a potentially devastating life-event, that being a child that cannot be supported fully, against the alternative, which is the death of a thing somewhere between non-humanity and humanity, the decision becomes tricky and highly situational.

I'm not saying that fetuses aren't alive. But it's also silly to think of them as fully alive, too. They don't have emotions, they don't have aspirations, they don't have real conscious thought. That puts them in the same category as a sea cucumber in terms of life. And I have few qualms with killing sea cucumbers to help society, should that need arise. But I also won't ignore the potential fetuses have to become people, which we should not kill. So there's a lot to weigh, and I think it's not as simple as "if it kills the mother then that's the only time we shouldn't"

I dislike it when people paint the abortion issue as something obvious or easy to answer. It isn't, anyone who says so is fooling themselves.

But ultimately my opinion on this subject is regrettably not super important, because I am a man, and I think women should be making the decision on this one.

Nah women are property

Jk

Loo

oh shid is dat tru

wow I feel dumb

It's not that I even oppose abortion, I generally support it for practical reasons as I stated before. I just didn't think the analogy was relevant to abortion generally, but rather to a small subset of cases. I don't support abortion after the fetus has an ability to feel pain or has brain function, I forget when this generally develops. I think men have every right to have an opinion on the issue as they are also a part of society and effected. You could say they are effected less, but people have legitimate views on all sorts of issues that effect them less than others. Certainly it's fine to oppose abortion if you think it's murder, although one should be able to make an argument for that claim.

@wahx

It was never an analogy. It was a thought exercise to provoke consideration of cost/benefit analysis. I wasn't saying you should arrive at the same conclusion, which is what an analogy implies, just that we should think about hedonistic calculus.

Men can share their thoughts, I mean that they should not have the final say because of the disparity in impact

@wahx Well lets see.

That baby is not robbing or trying to kill you.

And it is still a LIVING HUMAN.

Can you compare a living unborn baby to a criminal?

No.

Thats plain stupid.

Oh.

Your a liberal.

Not suprising.

😂 oh man that grammar. Damn you owned me!! So embarrassed