sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ (Discord ID: 221642954572300289), page 1


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damn

I’m gonna enjoy this server

lmao and that’s one term

wow

Weird how the dems are the true racists

all they have to do is promise free shit and win

Fascism is a form of socalism

change my mind

Where the means of production are collectively owned by the state or workers

But it's not as black and white as that

extremely heavy economic intervention by the state

Not market intervention

heavy market intervention

Take Venezeula for example

The state owns the property

in fascism

Mussolini wasn't a man of his word

he didn't follow fascism as he should have

and state socialism is just socialism

state capitalism does not exist

No it doesn't

define state capitalism

Hitler was pro private property in the sense that he could seize it if it went against the state, it was heavily regulated

define state capitalism

first of all

Wait wait

lets define that

define

state capitalism

Ok ignore them for now

Define state capitalism

We'll get onto it later

Then thats socialism

state and capitalism is an oxymoron

as capitalism is a free market

free from state intervention

or that is corporationism

then that isn't capitalism

Yes correct

Ok now state socialism

define that

yeah I know just clarifying

that is socialism

in itself

no need to call it state

Ok so we got that

Do you agree even if the means of production are private , if there is heavy state intervention in the market. It would be considered socialism?

like Venezuela

Because if you look at business freedom in Venezeula, it's below repressed...

and repressed is socialist

As in theres strong state intervention

let me show you

These would be socialist countries

These would be capitalist

wait we'll get there

Ok so

Wait wait

we're not there yet

Another thing I'd like to clarrify

National socialism is not fascism

but a form of it

But here is why national socialism is a form of socialism

Capitalism is an individualist system, that's not something anyone can argue with and since socialism is collectivist and that Nazi Germany was a collectivist movement, there's no question that Hitler was a socialist. You can't say NAZI Germany wasn't collectivist but deny that Hitler was not using a form of socialism

-All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

-The tax rates were extremely high, high as 80% I believe.

-"As Ludwig Von Mises once correctly observed, the German economy under Hitler was not capitalist at all….

What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
"

-Privatisation was just in name as the state really owned the companies due to their regulation and such. The business "owners" would be told what to make, when to make and how much to make.

-Hitler Nationalised healthcare, churches, automobile industry, the press so he could control what people heard and watched.

-Hitler created trade unions such as the German Labour front.

Fascism is anti market

strong state intervention in the economy

I know what it was

correct

collectivist

Thats a national socialist economy

a form of socialism

Corporationist would be different , as it would not be repressed

yes I know

this is national socialist

not corporationist

How so?

oh so he ditched national socialism

well then

National socialism in theory is a form of socialism

Whether or not he followed it exactly

Strasserism?

Capitalism and state intervention

is an oxymoron

Capitalism is the free market without state intervention

@Bowman Collectivist society

economically

a form of socialism

I didn't say state intervention

I said over state intervention

like Venezeula

it's below the repressed standard

USA is mostly free

Private property was only in name

as it could have been taken if it went against the state

and again extremely regulated

It was extreme state intervention

it would be repressed by todays standards

it would be on this list

China and Russia isn't repressed

they aren't socialist

China hasn't been for 40 years

Ok just clarifying

Nazi Germany and it's economic freedom score would be repressed

private property that is over regulated by the state

price controls

literally was a thing in nazi Germany and it was a big thing

Shen BapiroToday at 18:34
Doesn't china require large businesses to have a member of the board loyalty to the communist party?
No idea

actually

it's economic freedom score is however not socialist

although not capitalist

yeah just saying

Idk about that

It has

and is doing now

but it's failed

everytime

Communism is the real impossibility

A stateless, moneyless, marketless community where the MoP is owned by the workers

not a chance

Possibly

Although it would be still freer than Nazi Germany

Nah China isn't like that anymore

Probably under Mao

of course it would for some companies but not like Nazi Germany

"the great lEAp forward"

ahah

<:facepalm:487682504153628701>

Legendary economist Mises pointed this out aswell, national socialism was a form of socialism

and he was damn right

The same can be said about fascism however in Mussolini's case he wasn't a man of his word

and didn't follow through correctly

so it probably WaSnt ReAl FaSciSm

He didn't follow through properly

he wasn't a man of his word

I mean he didn't follow it through properly

Nah I don't mean failing

as in he didn't follow fascism's policies

not all of them

lol ye

fascism is retarded

Where has free market failed though

just curious

It takes time

sometimes

that doesn't mean it's a failure

as you look at it now, it's doing well

Not sure

when was the date

I don't believe thats a failure

since it takes time and it's shown to be thriving now

and improving

1% lives below the 1.90$ poverty line

10% below 5 dollars a day

Yeah it takes time some time

for the free market to work

since it's working now

and has been for years in Chile

I'd say it's a success?

Not really

I don't think thats much of a problem anyways

but onto markets

Shen BapiroToday at 18:46
But is that really all Pinochet, though?

what do you mean?

I don't think the free market has failed

It can't anyways

the best way to allocate resources

Like look at Hong Kong

Japan

Singapore

Ireland etc

Like Ireland got 20% gdp growth in 2015 Q1

Top 5 freest economies in the world

yeah

Yeah Sweden does

and Norway

and few others actually

^^^

Not even close

@The Big Oof Yeah massive welfare state

I don't think thats a good idea tho

40% debt to gdp in Sweden

the problem with these welfare states is that

it keeps people locked in poverty

strain on budget

The war on poverty when it started in the USA. Poverty stopped declining

Then started falling slower

The best type of economics is Austrian, Chicago, Monetarist

and return to the gold standard

if you ask me

I'd say Rep do

dems are the enemy of the people

as far as policies go

lmao

damn

why does everyone blame the jews

Can we do a debate

Fascism is a form of socialism

Change my mind

Yes

fascism is a form of socialism

@Koninos Capitalism is an individualist system, that's not something anyone can argue with and since socialism is collectivist and that Nazi Germany was a collectivist movement, there's no question that Hitler was a socialist. You can't say NAZI Germany wasn't collectivist but deny that Hitler was not using a form of socialism

-All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

-The tax rates were extremely high, high as 80% I believe.

-"As Ludwig Von Mises once correctly observed, the German economy under Hitler was not capitalist at all….

What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
"

-Privatisation was just in name as the state really owned the companies due to their regulation and such. The business "owners" would be told what to make, when to make and how much to make.

-Hitler Nationalised healthcare, churches, automobile industry, the press so he could control what people heard and watched.

-Hitler created trade unions such as the German Labour front.

its why fascism is left wing

and national socialism

He was national socialist

national socialism is a form of socialism

I'm saying fascism is a form of socialism

In economic values

there is but they're a form of each other

i know

National socialism is a form of socialism

and a form of fascism

read what I wrote

No I mean read what I wrote

thats why it's a form of socialism

not a copy

I didn't say fascism is left wing

i said it's a form of socialism

I did

as I wrote

Capitalism is an individualist system, that's not something anyone can argue with and since socialism is collectivist and that Nazi Germany was a collectivist movement, there's no question that Hitler was a socialist. You can't say NAZI Germany wasn't collectivist but deny that Hitler was not using a form of socialism

-All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

-The tax rates were extremely high, high as 80% I believe.

-"As Ludwig Von Mises once correctly observed, the German economy under Hitler was not capitalist at all….

What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
"

-Privatisation was just in name as the state really owned the companies due to their regulation and such. The business "owners" would be told what to make, when to make and how much to make.

-Hitler Nationalised healthcare, churches, automobile industry, the press so he could control what people heard and watched.

-Hitler created trade unions such as the German Labour front.

@Koninos That was his economic values

and i've seen the doctorine

National socialism would be a form of socialism

yes

as high as 80%

Angry BowmanToday at 19:21
lol, national socialism isn't marxist socialism though

Of course

thats why it's a form

I'll reply back in a second

Yes it's a form of socialism

not marxist

it rejects that

thats why it's a form

not a copy

@Doctor Anon No he wasn't

and let me adress the privitisation

"What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
"

"Privatisation" was only in name

Yeah docile they can say that

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