3. If the woman is making enough to provide for herself and the child in a modest, comfortable lifestyle, an amount worked out by economists, the men should pay nothing

4. Before the child is born, within the window where an abortion can legally happen, the father should be allowed to legally opt out of both visitation rights and child support. If the woman decides to get an abortion at that point, the man can be held responsible for some of the cost, but nothing else

That's what needs to happen to child support

And alimony and spousal support need to be 100% abolished

What do you think of that, @InsaneCaterpilla?

I agree besides number 3. If he's committed to providing for that child (had agreed to its existance) then he should be paying *something* that he is able to if he is not the primary caregiver

Okay, then have the court award a laughably small amount. Like $100 a month unless the father agrees to pay more

No. Whatever the cost of raising a child is judged to be per month, split by the amount of time looking after the child.

Then I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that. I personally don't think it's right for men to have to support people who can support themselves just fine

He's not supporting people who can support themselves, he's supporting his child.

Well we can get into visitation another time, but most men don't get much out of their visitation rights tbh

We've established he consented to their existance, so he should pay a fair and reasonable amount in regards to his take home pay for them. Obviously not meaning if he gets more he pays more, meaning that he pays what he can afford if he is on a low salery, even if it's below the amount the child is judged to cost

And since men mostly don't get much, a laughably small amount seems legally adequate

Also, I'm kind of worried about changing it to actual salaries

Like if women make nothing for many years because they're a housewife, how do we keep men from getting screwed over?

? I don't see how my scenario changes if she's a housewife.

Well, what'll happen is that the man will make his current salary and the woman will make $0

He'll be absolutely screwed over

Even if the woman has a PhD and could clearly be making more

Do we factor in housework and the like to her salary according to standard industry rates?

That seems like the best option

I don't see why, because the way I am judging it is that *every child has a set amount that economists judge they need to live a happy, healthy, life, and both parents share that cost based on how often they are with the child*

How much you make doesn't matter unless you can't afford to pay it, at which point government assistance should come in

No, I get that

But it's like a slippery slope at that point

Maybe taking care of a child means paying for rent

Or for other things that tangentially help

How far do we hold men responsible?

Only the cost that I mention should be applicable. As if no child existed, rent is your own responsibility

Okay, that makes sense. But in cases where the mother is overwhemingly unable to take care of a child, like can't pay rent at all, then the father should get custody

Like I guess a lot of those types of issues can be dealt with that way

Not providing a suitable living environment should be grounds for having the child taken away by CPS anyway

Sure. I still disagree with you about what should happen if the woman can afford to take care of both her and the child, but aside from that it's been a very good and productive discussion

Thanks for working with me to shape some policy :)

Oh, np

Soooooooo I was over at /r/divorce_men, and directed here for my issue. I filed for divorce, cannot afford a lawyer, but will go fundraising if I need to, and life has been unnecessarily hell, even for a divorce. I need help. I get support, but I need to better arm and prepare myself for the hearings and legal battles ahead.

Where are you based? @Dan da Dad

Just country and jurisdiction as there may be groups in your area

Lee County GA

So far, the minimum retainer I've found is 3k, but I don't feel the hunger. Whether true or not, I feel at a disadvtage simply by being a man in this scenario.

you will probably be, but call the judge out if they are being sexist! they will review their decision if they are a good judge