If it matters enough to them, they'll do it. And from how I'm planning this, these people will be doing a lot better than starving

And honestly, this is a big issue

Alimony and child support literally enslave innocent men

I think that's worth a little hardship if it means we can finally get rid of it completely

I mean, do you really think the better alternative is letting people stay in their home countries, and having their wages garnished, debts amassing, and having them thrown in jail?

I don't think so

You think it's worth it. But it's not about what you think, it's about making others think that too

Exactly

So ask someone who's paying what they think

Literally ask them

We can do surveys and polls for this sort of thing

But honestly, in my view, it won't go away until we can get overwhelming proof that the vast majority of women will be fine without forced financial support from men

And that won't be easy to do without some kind of strike

That would be a good way to gauge how many you can get to do it, but you might be disappointed... That would be the first step though, to ask how many are willing to. Then after that you can contact the people who you think might fund it

What do you mean saying they will be fine without forced financial support from men? That's obvious, there's day care and minimum wage jobs. After a child starts elementary school the mother can work during school hours. And she should receive some form of child support if she has the child the majority of the time, it's the amount that is always way too high

Being British I see any gap between what the father can afford and what he can't to be covered by the government

Now by 'see' I don't mean that's always what happens, I mean that's how I view it should be

Whether she should even get to have the child the majority of the time at all is another discussion

But forcing men to pay women who likely have similar work credentials as the men who left them is ridiculous

Yes, it is another discussion, but not relevant here since we are talking about this circumstance

Again, this is 2018

Most women are getting college degrees and making $30000+ a year, usually a lot more than that

Also, once alimony and child support are abolished, women will be a lot more careful about having children

Well that depends really. If the woman is spending more time with the child rather than working outside of day care hours then child support applies to that. If she pays for day care the father should share the cost of that

Many will likely get abortions

The only reason so many women choose to keep children they can't pay for is because they know the father WILL

I think you need to make it clear that you are only talking about non-couples/not married people because you haven't so far

This is 100% about non-couples and non-married people

You think that alimony and child support happen to men in comfortable, stable relationships with the mother?

Because they don't. That comes when things go south and the man no longer wants to pay

People separate, lives don't go as planned, and then yes things like that happen

And at that point, men should not be legally obligated to support people who can largely support themselves

I agree in regards to alimony, not to child support. They aren't both as bad as each other when you lump them together like that

Okay, I kind of get your point

So here's what I think needs to happen to child support

Now, children born to women who aren't in a relationship with the man and who has always said he doesn't want children with her shouldn't have to pay child support at all because he's had no say in the matter. But committed relationships and marriage are different

1. Judgements need to be based on the actual amount the parties are making, not imagined values based on experience that may or may not actually matter

2. There needs to be a hard cap on the amount of child support that can be paid out every year, adjusted for inflation

Some women are out there making 6 figures off that shit if they got with a wealthy man

3. If the woman is making enough to provide for herself and the child in a modest, comfortable lifestyle, an amount worked out by economists, the men should pay nothing

4. Before the child is born, within the window where an abortion can legally happen, the father should be allowed to legally opt out of both visitation rights and child support. If the woman decides to get an abortion at that point, the man can be held responsible for some of the cost, but nothing else