Now by 'see' I don't mean that's always what happens, I mean that's how I view it should be

Whether she should even get to have the child the majority of the time at all is another discussion

But forcing men to pay women who likely have similar work credentials as the men who left them is ridiculous

Yes, it is another discussion, but not relevant here since we are talking about this circumstance

Again, this is 2018

Most women are getting college degrees and making $30000+ a year, usually a lot more than that

Also, once alimony and child support are abolished, women will be a lot more careful about having children

Well that depends really. If the woman is spending more time with the child rather than working outside of day care hours then child support applies to that. If she pays for day care the father should share the cost of that

Many will likely get abortions

The only reason so many women choose to keep children they can't pay for is because they know the father WILL

I think you need to make it clear that you are only talking about non-couples/not married people because you haven't so far

This is 100% about non-couples and non-married people

You think that alimony and child support happen to men in comfortable, stable relationships with the mother?

Because they don't. That comes when things go south and the man no longer wants to pay

People separate, lives don't go as planned, and then yes things like that happen

And at that point, men should not be legally obligated to support people who can largely support themselves

I agree in regards to alimony, not to child support. They aren't both as bad as each other when you lump them together like that

Okay, I kind of get your point

So here's what I think needs to happen to child support

Now, children born to women who aren't in a relationship with the man and who has always said he doesn't want children with her shouldn't have to pay child support at all because he's had no say in the matter. But committed relationships and marriage are different

1. Judgements need to be based on the actual amount the parties are making, not imagined values based on experience that may or may not actually matter

2. There needs to be a hard cap on the amount of child support that can be paid out every year, adjusted for inflation

Some women are out there making 6 figures off that shit if they got with a wealthy man

3. If the woman is making enough to provide for herself and the child in a modest, comfortable lifestyle, an amount worked out by economists, the men should pay nothing

4. Before the child is born, within the window where an abortion can legally happen, the father should be allowed to legally opt out of both visitation rights and child support. If the woman decides to get an abortion at that point, the man can be held responsible for some of the cost, but nothing else

That's what needs to happen to child support

And alimony and spousal support need to be 100% abolished

What do you think of that, @InsaneCaterpilla?

I agree besides number 3. If he's committed to providing for that child (had agreed to its existance) then he should be paying *something* that he is able to if he is not the primary caregiver

Okay, then have the court award a laughably small amount. Like $100 a month unless the father agrees to pay more

No. Whatever the cost of raising a child is judged to be per month, split by the amount of time looking after the child.

Then I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that. I personally don't think it's right for men to have to support people who can support themselves just fine

He's not supporting people who can support themselves, he's supporting his child.

Well we can get into visitation another time, but most men don't get much out of their visitation rights tbh

We've established he consented to their existance, so he should pay a fair and reasonable amount in regards to his take home pay for them. Obviously not meaning if he gets more he pays more, meaning that he pays what he can afford if he is on a low salery, even if it's below the amount the child is judged to cost

And since men mostly don't get much, a laughably small amount seems legally adequate

Also, I'm kind of worried about changing it to actual salaries

Like if women make nothing for many years because they're a housewife, how do we keep men from getting screwed over?

? I don't see how my scenario changes if she's a housewife.

Well, what'll happen is that the man will make his current salary and the woman will make $0

He'll be absolutely screwed over