Yeah, its like 13% planned

@InsaneCaterpilla Eh. Survivors aren't a random sample. I feel pretty confident in postulating that people who have a greater desire for suicide tend to use more final methods.

Sure, you can ask survivors and that will give you good data. But you can woozle yourself too that way.

It's that instant trigger which makes those pile of problems seem never ending. That trigger could be anything per se. I myself pondered about how liberating an early death would be after reading Nietzsche. It was nothing suicidal, but the amount of adversaries in life seemed never ending. Mind needs constant motivation.

In general they probably do, but people have even been known (in rare cases) to survive shooting themselves in the head

Yeah, I was thinking of that

There some people who clearly didn't have a last moment "oshit" moment and survived for sheer providence or coincidence

"It's that instant trigger which makes those pile of problems seem never ending...Mind needs constant motivation" <- so much yes.

The solution to the problem imo is rigorous promotion of mental health among young men and also generally among all. The industry should hire more mental health professionals and check the mental well being of their employees. Every problem could be tackled in some way or the other, its when we don't get a viable solution we look in the despair and think of dying. A prolonged connection with those sort of thoughts which increases suicidal tendencies.

Unfortunately, mental health professionals are often really, really bad at dealing with men, you can look into some of Elam's material for that

I think that's a great solution though

What counts as impulsive suicides to you @asparkofpyrokravte

I think there were suicide survivor studies that asked "when did you make the decision and why" and often it was related to a really recent event (like getting dumped), and made hours prior to the act.

But I'd have to go through the actual sources for that number from the website

I haven't researched that as much as I'd like for this sort of discussion

That's so true. Also mental health professionals mostly females, it's tough for them to understand the male psyche unless they are really experienced in their respective fields. We need more male psychologists. I think that's the key reason as to why men open up about their problems with their buddies rather than opting for professional help. They are often skeptic about the level of empathy that they won't have with the professionals.

@lazzzycarrot(30) / senpai(40) You can also look at the behavior of suicide survivors. While the risk of actually comitting suicide is greatly increased for those who have attempted in the past couple years, the numbers of those that actually do so remains low, below 5% IIRC

It's like 10% of people at some point in their lives decide life isn't worth living and act on it. 1% actually commit suicide, and some smaller number (0.1%?) legitimately hate life with a passion

except for the middle number, I haven't rigoursly confirmed the percentages

@John Wick And completely agreed with that

@asparkofpyrokravte do you mind if I go back to a statistic you said earlier, you mentioned that women attempt suicide 1.2 times more often than men I believe? How come some studies put that at 3x the rate and where does the discrpency come from?

As I noted at the time, ER reports

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9qt24c/if_you_were_going_to_make_a_trifold_poster_board/e8d64br/?context=3

Some guy claimed that women actually don't attempt suicide more than men

I thought that was worth looking into

And I found that he was full of shit

But that what I thought was true (the 2x figure) was also false

Hrm, that reddit thread isn't as helpful as I thought it'd be

But anyways, that survey doesn't really have any potential flaws in its methodology, whereas the other ones that I found seemed more prone to double counting or self selection (very present with ER stuff, which selects for women who survive rather than men who don't).

How are the other studies getting the 2/3x figure though? Like, what flawed methodology are they using?

Ah, okay. I'll go dig it up, but the summary was that they were counting people at the hospital. So you get your failed poisonings, but not people who jump from 8 stories

I don't know if I am using the right words here but I do feel women generally are more pampered than men. Right from their childhood, everything seems a bar down for them when a guys' life seems to toughen up with every passing day, with more responsibility, more challenges and on a general basis less emotional support. And, this princess complex leads to emotional fragility on the other side, where with the chances of suicidal thoughts on facing a tough situation increases. Not generalising the fact, as exceptions always exist, but this is what I have observed. And I feel this contributes to the stat.

I can't remember which study it was I read, but I remember that female babies/children are more likely to be comforted when they're in distress than males are

I am not sure about that actually. Babies are equally vulnerable to diseases as their immune system is weak. Gender doesn't seem to be an issue here.

As a young child, I particularly remember being told by my father to stop crying when I got hurt, or he would 'give me something to cry about'

Same

I really need to go to sleep but I related that line so much

@lazzzycarrot(30) / senpai(40) :<

My family never said anything related to not crying. But whenever I cried publicly, I faced mocking rather than empathy. Somewhere down in the sub-conscious mind, I taught myself to not show emotions publicly.

Or If i cried as a child my mother told me to “man-up men don’t cry “

I'm not saying I never cry, but if I do I do it silently now, more akin to weeping