Yeah, the most common woozle for the 3x figure found here:https://save.org/about-suicide/suicide-facts/ appears to be from the CDC document here: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/suicide-datasheet-a.pdf, which shows closer to 2x for students, 3x was only for suicide attempts resulting in injury. Another cited one is here: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-depressed-patient-and-suicidal-patient-in-the-Chang-Gitlin/25c937bfe845f9f133d794b5f2c917df114ecf67

Whereas 1.2 comes from here https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

I remember finding the actual data from 2016 National Survey of Drug Use and Mental Health was difficult

because it is in this document: https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTabs-2016/NSDUH-DetTabs-2016.pdf

which is thousands of pages...you can find it on page 2704

I'd like to share what is probably a very unpopular opinion toward reducing suicide, which is legalizing euthanasia. Not only would it allow people who live with severe pain to end their life, but it would bring into light more discussion on the topic of death. People would always know that it is an option for them, so they will be more open with themselves and others about it. I believe impulsive suicides would drop as a result.

What's your opinion on that @asparkofpyrokravte?

Found the right page for you there InsaneCaterpilla. You might also be able to find it in the non-detailed document.

which is somewhere

..

I totally agree about legalizing euthanasia

100%

But I'm on the /r/SanctionedSuicide train by principle

Not really about reducing suicide rate

I expect the suicide rate would increase. I think it *should* increase.

With the goal being reducing human suffering

..

I don't think suicide rates would drop.

I think that is more related to social alienation amoung other things, especially an inabillity to find meaning in a society that seems increasingly useless and self-destructive.

People generally have a drive to keep living and improve their situation. Men dont talk about things like ending their lives, but if they *did* feel able to... Perhaps they would be able to overcome it. Men have proven that without euthanasia they will kill themselves anyway, so I can't see how it would increase the suicide rate.

I don't think the problem of suicide is a failure to talk about problems. Having a better support structure (ie. reaction to cries for help) may help, but I think the effect will be relatively marginal.

Moreover, legalizing it doesn't solve even that aspect by itself. Note that many people, self included, are religious, and that has taboos about suicide and shit of its own

Religion generally had to make suicide a bad thing, I mean, they promise great things after you die so if they didn't there would be no reason for all their followers not to just off themselves

That's actually not true. Its mostly true of (most) protestantism, but not generally true of other religions

Other religions "base great things after you die" on service to the cause during life

A few religions, like much of the rest of Christianity, don't fall neatly into either category

Pretty much as long as you're faithful during your life, you'll get to something equivalent to heaven... But killing yourself breaks the faith no? Doesn't Islam have a similar tenet?

No, Islam is much more wishy-washy about the whole thing, unless you get killed in battle.

Killing yourself doesn't usually break-faith either in most religions. It might in Islam, but I don't think so.

It is most dangerous in the Catholic tradition of Christianity I think

It doesn't break faith in the protestant end of Christianity, it just counts as a bad thing that can't be taken back.

I dated a Muslim once... I guess i should have asked more questions.

Muslims do have a heaven-like thing, and it is largely based on being faithful, but god is great, and it is mostly based on whether or not he finds it in himself to treat you well

Theoretically being faithful should cause god to judge you righteous

but I think Islam is very big on the completely and utter sovereignty thing

The woman I dated was much of the opinion that everything that happened, including her falling in love with an atheist like me, was Allah's will

Very big on the complete and utter sovereignty thing. That said, she sounds like a ~~heretic~~ some sort of person who isn't completely right on their dogma

She wasn't strict in a lot of regards.

For example she didn't really go to mosque, and had sex outside of marriage despite living in Malaysia, where Muslims are more strict than say the western world

But she still wouldn't eat pork, yet would drink alcohol

I've dated people from Malaysia, the US, the Netherlands and Australia. Perhaps I'm subconsciously ticking off a list.