(for the purposes of euthanasia, not for other aspects of law)

Hence the need for some kind of outside evaluation, maybe the solution isn’t death but just getting them somewhere they can feel safe from abuse

as long as the evaluation isn't binding I wouldn't object

That isn't an argument against euthanasia, its an argument on better considering of those with mental health issues

I’m saying it could just help to detect the red flags

Sadly it’s not that uncommon for carers to take the lives of the person they are meant to be caring for into their own hands

Perhaps not, but wouldn't you think that if that person could decide their own fate then the incidence rate would go down

Zz

Just fell asleep a sec

Nn

I’m saying we should have a system where people can die with dignity, but there should be failsafes in place to help protect lives where it isn’t necessary.

Personally I think any system of euthanasia is going to be pretty open to abuse, but I'll leave it at that.

I suppose I'd agree, but I think the consequences of not having it is pretty abusive

The way I see is to break it into kind of tiers of severity, let’s say 3 for now, Green, Orange and Red

Green would be basically accept, you have been diagnosed with something either terminal or degenerative and nothing can be done, this cases people should have the option to be allowed to die with dignity

Orange would be for people who have a reduced quality of life, basically my dad would fall here since he cannot care for himself, would have a cooling period and Carers and family should be involved but the decision goes to the individual

Red would be kind of like a red flag case, a lot of mental disorders and depression would fall here, would have a much longer cooling period and involved doctors and a strong attempt to help people find other solutions, I think here is where you need to be really careful with such a system

But again, would all need to be seriously a case by case basis

I like that

Even though my dad knows that if he tried to commit suicide I would fucking kill him xD

Hmmm

I do think euthanasia is a serious thing that doesn’t have a simple answer, so you need to be very careful when building the system to accomodate for it, especially the failsafes that will stop assholes from abusing it

Every system I've seen so far has been pretty poor. I'm not sure how it would be fixable, really. Maybe look up the Liverpool Care Pathway as a reference.

It’s also why I feel like distinctions or tiers would be necessary, since in the basic bitch example model I made, that red category would probably be at the highest risk for abuse, for the other 2 it is easier since medical doctors can back up for the Terminal or for people who lack the ability to care for themselves

I’m in two minds about it, I believe people should have the right to die with dignity but I do worry about unforeseen ways the system could be open to abuse

Loopholes... loopholes everywhere

This was to your previous comment. My internet is being flaky

My issue is that doctors themselves have an impitus to push people down this route due to lack of resources and time. It's easy to be cynical, and vulnerable people are very common.

And don't forget stupid

My god some people are as thick as mud

That too

Especially if you add 'greedy'.

There are lots of quite old people with unscrupulous children too. Instead of spending a few years pottering about gardening or similar, the temptation is to make them feel like they are a 'bother'.

You can wrangle them through the system on sympathy, and they'll murder themselves cleanly and legally. You can even pretend it's the right thing to do.

It's a very seductive kind of thinking, and you'd need to take it into consideration

Definitely. Eugenics is like Communism. Good on paper until you read a history book.

Yes, this is very much in that kind of territory.

It’s not eugenics though, and I said I understood the concept of human error, but I do think people who are terminal or have something degenerative should be allowed to die with dignity, instead of knowing how much pain they have to go through and it is all futile since they will die in the end anyway

Well it’s a heavy topic that makes a lot of people uncomfortable that doesn’t have much to do with Men’s rights so I’ll stop xD

@Abbysol Not the thing itself, I know. But it has potential to be used that way - and has been. My problem is not stopping futile pain, but the factor that it has huge potential for missuse. I'm not giving a hard no on it because I'm a fence sitter. My major worry is how it could be deployed to target the vulnerable. Most people campaigning for it know their own minds and could say no quite forcefully. A lot of people are easier to wear down - even very healthy ones.

In any case