And what of goals where your fulfillment surpasses your suffering?

lottery

Is experiencing pleasure, even in the act of suffering, turning your goal into an aim of the last man?

no, once your goal has been achieved, experiencing its reward is what makes it worth it

The problem is becoming stagnant in that comfort

If my goal is to buy a house and to retire and I achieved it with no other goal in mind, I am the last man

And if you find reward in the act of suffering? Or find comfort in refusing stagnancy?

Goals are ever evolving

In your example, you are the last man because that's a goal of consumption, not because you didn't have any further goals.

For the higher man

Alotta "if's" going around

Obtaining a house is not a goal of consumption necessarily

It can be an investment

@The Crooked 1 Welcome to philosophy, more "if"s will be forthcoming.

@BigTyrone By Nietzsche's own definition, it is a goal of consumption.

Obtaining a house?

Its what you do with that house isnt it?

Unless you're planning on *building* the house yourself, on land you clear, simply purchasing something is the aim of the last man.

i disagree

With Nietzsche?

With that interpretation

It is what you do with the house

if you sit in it and do nothing but seek comfort in that house then yes you are the last man

If you reinvest and use equity to obtain more houses and build a real estate empire than you are a higher man

what if using it as a "base" to work on other passions

You're making a leap from seeing to your own needs to higher goals.

You don't need to be a real estate owner you can rent

i want to travel, invest, innovate, but i need space

And now we're changing the purpose of why you acquired the house.

Yeah then i agree, its the purpose of the house that matters

Of the house? Or your purpose for acquiring it?

of purchasing it and what you do with it

And if your purpose is to purchase it as an endpoint, for comfort?

last man

Exactly

Retire

Ah, fascinating... so suffering is not the delineating factor between the goal of the last man and the goal of the higher man.

...............

I'm arguing from Nietzsche's own perspective here, by the way; you used suffering as a metric for higher goals and I'm telling you it isn't.

Beanboozled

Both men could "suffer' equally to acquire the house and not be the same man in practice or thought.