A logical flaw, by the way, that Nietzsche directly addresses.

Its not flawed when you read it how I meant it and how I rephrased it for better understanding of what I meant

if you want to achieve your goals, it will require suffering and that suffering will be good for you after you've achieved your goal

And if achieving a goal does not require suffering or suffering hinders you from achieving a goal?

you fail

Then it is probably a goal of the last man

On what ground?

it is probably an insignificant goal

And not a goal at all, without going through the suffering to achieve something great

If it is a lofty goal the suffering you experience will be there

Then would suffering be an objective human experience?

And what of goals where your fulfillment surpasses your suffering?

lottery

Is experiencing pleasure, even in the act of suffering, turning your goal into an aim of the last man?

no, once your goal has been achieved, experiencing its reward is what makes it worth it

The problem is becoming stagnant in that comfort

If my goal is to buy a house and to retire and I achieved it with no other goal in mind, I am the last man

And if you find reward in the act of suffering? Or find comfort in refusing stagnancy?

Goals are ever evolving

In your example, you are the last man because that's a goal of consumption, not because you didn't have any further goals.

For the higher man

Alotta "if's" going around

Obtaining a house is not a goal of consumption necessarily

It can be an investment

@The Crooked 1 Welcome to philosophy, more "if"s will be forthcoming.

@BigTyrone By Nietzsche's own definition, it is a goal of consumption.

Obtaining a house?

Its what you do with that house isnt it?

Unless you're planning on *building* the house yourself, on land you clear, simply purchasing something is the aim of the last man.

i disagree

With Nietzsche?

With that interpretation

It is what you do with the house

if you sit in it and do nothing but seek comfort in that house then yes you are the last man

If you reinvest and use equity to obtain more houses and build a real estate empire than you are a higher man

what if using it as a "base" to work on other passions

You're making a leap from seeing to your own needs to higher goals.

You don't need to be a real estate owner you can rent

i want to travel, invest, innovate, but i need space

And now we're changing the purpose of why you acquired the house.

Yeah then i agree, its the purpose of the house that matters