Life is pain and suffering. In order to survive you must endure and overcome.

i think there's more to it than that... but maybe the frogs are gay now

It's a caution against the suffering of others being your drive and refuting that moralism requires you *must* be a "good" or "selfless" person to do good things.

no I dont think that all suffering is necessarily good

Pain and suffering is necessary, but yes it isnt necessarily good or evil either

I said if you want to achieve your goals, it will require suffering and that suffering will be good for you after you've achieved your goal

I agree with that

like coding there are libraries, those libraries were built by others who "suffered"

Self inflicted suffering for self improvement

we code on top of them

I just don't get how you pulled "suffering is a good thing and putting yourself through hardship will make you a better man" from a passage discussing the flaws of altruism as an absolute good.

a higher man obtains his goals through suffering

Sorry my sentencing was all chopped up

letting the words flow through me

in my context it made me think

There's "letting the words flow through me" and "using entirely unrelated words to make a logically flawed point"

A logical flaw, by the way, that Nietzsche directly addresses.

Its not flawed when you read it how I meant it and how I rephrased it for better understanding of what I meant

if you want to achieve your goals, it will require suffering and that suffering will be good for you after you've achieved your goal

And if achieving a goal does not require suffering or suffering hinders you from achieving a goal?

you fail

Then it is probably a goal of the last man

On what ground?

it is probably an insignificant goal

And not a goal at all, without going through the suffering to achieve something great

If it is a lofty goal the suffering you experience will be there

Then would suffering be an objective human experience?

And what of goals where your fulfillment surpasses your suffering?

lottery

Is experiencing pleasure, even in the act of suffering, turning your goal into an aim of the last man?

no, once your goal has been achieved, experiencing its reward is what makes it worth it

The problem is becoming stagnant in that comfort

If my goal is to buy a house and to retire and I achieved it with no other goal in mind, I am the last man

And if you find reward in the act of suffering? Or find comfort in refusing stagnancy?

Goals are ever evolving

In your example, you are the last man because that's a goal of consumption, not because you didn't have any further goals.

For the higher man

Alotta "if's" going around

Obtaining a house is not a goal of consumption necessarily

It can be an investment

@The Crooked 1 Welcome to philosophy, more "if"s will be forthcoming.