Are you saying that you don't need to suffer in order to achieve a lofty goal?

cuz then I disagree

No, I'm saying that suffering does not ensure a lofty goal.

I agree with that

I said the opposite

A lofty goal requires suffering

And suffering does not make a goal worthwhile or is even good for goals, either.

Indeed

wait

...is even good for goals?

As in suffering does not necessarily serve as a good or grounds for good in a goal you wish to achieve.

Yes but suffering is good and is apart of the higher mans goal

The last man can suffer a fools errand

If you're trying to paint a landscape and you trip on the doorframe of your house, and sprain your ankle, is that suffering either good or a part of the higher man's goal?

no ive already said not all suffering is equal

But then you say suffering is good...

Suffering in order to achieve a lofty goal is required and THAT suffering is good

not all suffering

But would you have tripped were you not coming and going so much to finish your painting? Is that required and/or good?

Or do you retroactively assign value to the suffering, once you're done?

no, but the suffering required to finish your painting is good and necessary

You falling on your ass is not good, it is not a goal

But if it is a part of it, unintentionally so?

definitely not

Those are not goals

and if you trip that has nothing to do with the painting

that has to do with your own clumsy ass lol

maybe make it a goal to not be so clumsy next time although this is not a goal of a higher man

that shits innate

So now failure or mishap on the way to the goal is both suffering as part of it, but not good, and not equal, and even if being less clumsy improves your pursuit of higher goals, it's not a worthwhile one?

Failure is apart of suffering.. but i think it is a stretch to say tripping on the way to your painting is a fail in the pursuit of your higher goal

the higher goal is to complete a work of art, not to maintain balance ahaha

If you make a wrong stroke on the painting have to start over that is apart of the suffering in your higher goal

So you're delineating mishaps or failures directly, even if standing on a sprained ankle caused you to make that wrong stroke?

Are we dealing with a moron here? hahhaha

Don't stand on your sprained ankle while your painting a masterpiece hahaha

that type of suffering has nothing to do with the suffering you find in your higher goal

It does if, in your focus and drive, it affects your attempts to reach that higher goal.

Plenty of masterpieces were delayed or destroyed or redone because of the sort of happenstance you're dismissing.

What the hell

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