Ahhhhhhh. Interesting.

MAN-CHILDREN. Interesting.

you don’t have to be a fedora tipper and humblebrag about how many books you read. But it’s just....lack of self-awareness

Hm.... So men are responsible for the collective? Collective being the human race?

Kinda? Idk, I’m trying to figure this out as I go. It’s like, you can’t change the world, but you can make some changes in your life to do something worthwhile. It’s easy to say “it’s inevitable” and “it can’t be helped.” But if you can start with yourself, and maybe others did that too, then we wouldn’t be as fucked as we are today

But most people, like simps and women, don’t want to worry about that. They just want to do what works and whatever makes their teachers and mommy and daddy happy.

Well... The idea that we are "fucked" is subjective. I would not say that I'M fucked. Where do you get this idea that we are born to do something worthwhile to potentially change the world?

Where do these responsibilities come from that are born into us?

I don’t know, man. Maybe it isn’t for everyone, and yeah I guess most people just want to sleepwalk through life. But it’s just frustrating seeing people pay into the same systems that are ruining us, defend them, then shame others for walking away from it

I think that’s just always the way it’s going to be though

Also, that second part about simps is interesting as well... Who are the simps and what makes you sure that they go to school or are interested in their parent's acceptance?

What exactly is sleepwalking through life to you? If a person is living for themselves and not saving the world, then are they in a state of prolonged adolescence?

Also... If you don't know where these beliefs of human responsibility come from, how can you expect others to live by them? You don't know where they came from for yourself?

I guess it’s just immaturity. Women can be excused for their immaturity, they’ll never face any consequences for it. The simps, blue pilled men, herd, slave morality that keep their head down and don’t want to see the truth.

Hm.. and is it hard to understand why these men operate this way? Or why women are excused from their responsibilities? Or are you just at odds with it.

I think both. It’s frustrating seeing all of it in motion

Ok. Well "immaturity" is often painted in a broad brush and often used by people to direct others to do their bidding (adhere to their demands). Immaturity is BS. No one is born to do anything, we as a society have come together under a set of agreed upon rules (laws) and unfortunately these rules have been swayed in the favor of women. Prolonged adolescence is another zinger used to get men back to doing their part with no benefit.

So are you a MGTOW? and what responsibilities do you feel men have to society?

Yeah I can see that. Why put it in all the work and take on responsibility for no reward?

Yeah. To work with their hands, self-actualisation, and find meaning

I think it's important to remember that these dreams and goals that we're told to achieve were given to us by society. Wife, kids, house. That doesn't have anything to do with your birth, life or death.

I guess I fall in line with Sandman’s take on it

So if you believe that men are born to self-actualize and find meaning, why believe in "prolonged adolescence"? Are these immature men not doing those things?

Right, you’re free from society’s burdens and any expectations or demands they put on you. You can go your own way your own way, but I’m not one of the “enjoy the collapse” types

The seeds need to be planted today so trees can eventually grow.

If you dont plant the seeds society will rot

The idea of enjoying the collapse, I think,comes from the realization that we as men have no other choice. Do you believe there is something that can be done about the social state?

Right. I don’t mean jacking off to hentai when I say prelonged adolescence. I mean being 40 years old and doing nothing but sitting in front of the TV to watch football, when you could be sharpening your mind, your body, your willpower

Yes, but not by snapping my fingers. It comes with individuals making choices

What can an individual's choices eventually change about the state of society and why should they put their energy and interest into it?

Not much

Hopefully, it can result in liberation and standing up for ourselves. Choosing to walk away, go our own way, and break free from society’s chains. All of my favorite MGTOW youtubers are just individuals who make choices

Unless you rise to power

Are you as a man not free once you decide you are? Can you not free yourself simply by going your own way?

lol Also, are those guys sitting in front of the TV not more free than those who achieved all those goals previously mentioned?

Those goals that they didn't have until someone gave them to them?

Depends on the definition of freedom. Hedonism, nihilism, and consumerism are all slave masters in some people’s eyes

People will always be subjective with limitations to various definitions. What do you think about my questions personally?

Do you need society to change to be free individually?

They’re good questions, ones worth being asked

lol and answered