It is, and you kind of need more than one person

in effect you need to combine both definitions

Yup, and then you get into the word 'criminals'

as for the question about breaking the law, many nations and states have laws that remain in their legal code from times when they were relevant but no longer are, are un-enforceable, and there are the vague open ended laws that basically make anything a crime so technically everyone likely has broken the law, but probably unwittingly

It is the same in every country mate, I am not having a gi at the US specifically

go*

then there are the rediculous ones we never bothered repealing and everyone breaks anyway, like the one they just repealed in utah that used to make sex outside of marriage illegal

Neither am I, may I ask you what continent you are in?

North America

Ok, so there is two more countries there, I will not ask you witch

its not that hard a guess

worst case scenario you narrow me down to 40 million or so people

Not really, you great command of English give you away 😉

one of the 3 I claim to have knowledge of

@AVRO Architect I am not trying to dox you mate

i know, there are rules here. Its more for the others observing

after all this was hardly private

I see your point, I must say you are very good with arguments, even if I disagree with you on some points

What you have experienced and what I have are two very different things, I practically grew up with the military, I understand it well, just like how I know there are militaries out there that practically are organized crime (Iran, Iraq, Russia, China, etc)

I won't deny the crimes of the past or our modern day contemporaries.

I think all of them would disagree with that point. I have never been to the military, so I will admit I rely on second hand information only

What defines a force like this the most is the quality of the people who make it up

I agree, and people in gangs are not all bad, as all people in the military is not all bad

I can certainly defend the Iraq claim, search up the US army's study as to why the Iraqis lost so miserably (in the gulf war) , the equipment and force size they had should have performed better than they did, even though they were outclassed

Well, yes. do you start to understand my connection with the military with gangs in this case at least?

In short it boils down to corruption, power hoarding, and incompetence

I can see it but not with a modern western military

organized criminals?

no the loss of the Iraqi military

sorry I take a while to type

So, there is no corruption in western military?

Not a problem mate, take your time, I have plenty of time

not to a violent criminal level, its more internal office politics or the corruption of individuals not the organization as a whole

it is not organized crime, when it occurs

What about your example of the war in Iraq? Both violent and criminal

more like political favors because someone was bribed, threatened or was doing a favor and bending or ignoring the rules

Criminal does not have to be violent by the way

the Iraqi military in the 90's is a textbook case of it so i used it as an example

It had more to do with the nation being a dictatorship and the politics that brought to the Iraqi military

I know, and point were taken. Where that criminal though? Being order to do something illegal is no excuse by the way

its extremely complex