Message from @Diablo
Discord ID: 475837356444745759
Lol, direct say.
yet here Russians were claiming that they're country is collapsing due to liberal reforms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjBmtkW3Tl8
So, commies are claiming that they need communism?
Ok.
I'm not entirely sure why that's supposed to surprise me.
we need socialism is a transitional period to communism, and they are just average everyday people
lol
I know people who did. It was awful.
you did? where were they from?
(also you're just giving me anecdotal so there are some that you wanted from people)
How about during the time of not only the early 1920s famine, but the Holodomor as well, the Soviets did not stop or even decrease their exportation of grain?
they actually imported grain during the holodomor later on, they had to sell off grain because they just had went through a civil war and ww1
their country would have collapsed if they didn't sell grain, also they didn't know the famine would grow that big of a size
They knew, or at the very least there were people at the top that knew better, but Stalin wanted his collective farms, and he wasn't going to let the reality of starving people get in his way.
the kulaks ended up burning their crops because their land was being collectivized be the state, and how does collectivization randomly destroy crops?
also another document about the kulaks destroying land
here's a document ordering to increase food production in an area that voluntarily promised extra but did not even reach the original quota.
I would fully expect the Soviets to blame their shortcomings on anyone but themselves. That is how their system functioned. I put as much faith in the accuracy of those reports as I do in the optimism of Stalin's "Dizzy With Success" article in Pravda
so you're just saying i can't trust the USSR and what their documents say because they are the USSR?
i could say the same for any capitalist document
also if you want more info on grain exports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMBJ_nQ4sTA
this is more in depth
We know very clearly how they operated. We have countless examples of them twisting the truth to suit their ideology and not the other way around. The fact that you would trust documents of theirs that throw all blame on people that they had every reason to malign because they branded them unequivocably as political enemies and then try to deflect to an argument that no one made (capitalist documents) yeah, guess what? I don't trust the CIA or FBI either. We know how the Soviets propagated disinformation, stop trying to pretend you can trust them with the truth.
what book is that?
and also i can say why would you trust the black book of communism, why would trust that book? you don't have any counter evidence
saying "i know how the system works" doesn't mean anything
if you have any counter evidence against the documents, i would like to see them
The book is The End of Committment by Paul Hollander. for your information, I have not read the black book of communism, but I have read accounts of people who lived under those systems.
i'm still waiting for counter evidence against the documents
Well, unlike certain people who make it their primary occupation to perform apologia for dead oppressive regimes, I don't have these readily to hand. I must ask you to be patient while I look for links to documents. Are you capable of being a good boy and waiting, or are you going to try to make the argument that unless I instantaneously provide documents, my whole argument is invalid?
you just said read a book that you read before, that doesn't mean anything. take your time getting links.
@Dinosorcerer if you like to read, read this https://www.garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf
😉
here's the paper book https://www.amazon.com/Fraud-Famine-Fascism-Ukrainian-Genocide/dp/0919396518
or it might be hardcover idk
liberalism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnun8y7r8_U
let's start with Mr. Gareth Jones then, a man who had no more love from anything I can gleam for Mr. Hitler than he did for Mr. Stalin. Jones slipped the notice of his Soviet handlers and ventured into Ukraine by himself to document what he saw there. when he returned from the Soviet Union, he wrote an article for the London Evening Standard that was published on March 31st, 1933. the full article, documenting his observations can be found here:
https://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/famine_rules_russia.htm