then you just don't believe in the 2008 housing crash

No, I don't believe that ignorance makes innocent

so banks gamble away their holders' money, create a giant system of artificial value around subprime mortgages, and its the clients' fault?

Yes

No, I'm not saying the fault lies exclusively with one party

I think thats a dumb way of looking at it, it's expecting a random guy to predict and then respond to events in the future that many economists didnt understand

Victim blaming is the answer to everything

I'm saying fault is rarely a black and white issue, that's almost exclusively a thing for children

Congress was creating the legislation at the time to ensure maximum bubble popping too

I blame people who stay in geographically unsafe locations

Then they bail themselves out because their investment companies went tits up

yes, the government is also at fault, but he seems to be placing a bizarre amount of it on the citizenry that got absolutely fucked

My entire philosophy is built around maximization of the self-ownership of responsibility

If you're not willing to maximize your accountability, then you must not blame other people first before yourself for your own failures

okay, you're walking down a sidewalk on a busy street. a car blows a tire and swerves, hitting you. was it your responsibility to have not been on that patch of fucking sidewalk?

That has nothing to do with our debate

it rather does

No-one is responsible for large scale changes that screw people over, and many people simply dont have the resources to actually do anything about it

You're bringing up a fringe scenario to win an argument about the average situation

I already said, getting struck by lightning doesn't count

a massive economic crash is not an average fucking situation

If your philosophy is true than it should apply in all situations

Most people who live in poverty don't do so because of an economic crash

no, which is why I stipulated unnacountably

you're just denying such a thing exists, in a fucking victorian era mindset

But you brought up the 2008 crash, so you gave an example of a case that is not mainly responsible for poverty

losing one's home and money tends to be followed very closely by poverty

Doesn't change the fact that it's a bad example, a better example is people being generally irresponsible with money

how the fuck is that a better example of unaccountable impoverishment? that's literally the other group I stipulated that I wasn't referring to

are you high?

You talked about people being unaccountable, and I would agree that some people are not mainly accountable, but as an example you gave the housing crash, which only drove a minority into poverty

Those who worked to get out of poverty did get out

For the most part

Arguing for a lack of accountability is fine, but if you laserfocus on a minority of people who were extremely unlucky despite working hard, then you're going to have to look extremely hard

People have partial responsibility for 2008, but it's like blaming someone for speeding when the brakes don't work and the accelerator is jammed.

Now, if we're talking about a socialist country, that whole debate would take a different direction

not nearly as hard as you're portraying.

I beg to differ

I had a choice in life to stay poor or get rich, and I decided to get rich, and that's where I'm heading. I had absolutely *zero* qualifications.

"boo hoo I couldn't work in muh field"

Yeah we don't get what we want all the time, get over it