and i mean if we're comparing dems to republicans at least it would be worth pointing out that clinton probably bears a lot of responsibility for the 2007 recession

No, the recession is not a valid excuse, his policies created the slowest recovery since world war II

We've had a few recessions between then and now

It’s a stretch to accuse Clinton, he actually *paid off* the national deficit during his tenure.

Bush didnt even have much financial policy he spent 8 years trying to deal with the afternath of 9/11

i mean the deficit is going to rise during a recession

yeah the clinton surplus contributed to the recession

The only reason Obamas deficit fell was because Republicans took over the house and senate and stonewalled every thing he did

The deficit shrink was not Obamas doing

it is not actually good for a country like the united states to run a surplus

`Impeachable Treason`
`>In other words, a person commits treason if he uses armed force in an attempt to over throw the government, or if he knowingly gives aid and comfort to nations (or organizations) with which the United States is in a state of declared or open war.`
Seems like an odd charge to be levying against the President. Whom exactly is he aiding?

if you have a trade deficit and a gov surplus at the same time that necessarily means the private sector is a net borrower

The dems are just desperate to get him out because they cant fathom that they lost terribly

They’re going to claim his temporary halt on Humanitarian aid to Ukraine *somehow* bolsters Russia. Just wait for it.

Good luck defending that argument.

*turns out the popular vote isnt all you need to win elections*

`Betrayal of the National Interest Through Foreign Entanglements`
Ah yes, just like Hillary's ties to the Saudis.
https://news.yahoo.com/nader-bragged-to-middle-east-government-about-access-to-clintons-secured-with-illegal-campaign-cash-says-justice-department-193814757.html

i don't think private sector deleveraging has occurred to a similar extent to what it did in 2007 (after WW2)

so that would explain why the recession was so deep

All presidents have ties to the Saudis. It’s a bipartisan problem that’s existed for the past 3 decades.

Clinton comes as no surprise.

https://youtu.be/eBh0oJFtV_c lmao here ya go

Only like 5 pages of the actual doc seem to consist of stuff OTHER than random historical context

this is ambassador sondland, who became ambassador after donating a million dollars to the trump candidacy

he was handpicked by trump

80-82 was worse

he openly admits that there was a quid pro quo

Yet Reagan's recovery was quicker

Quid pro quo isn’t really an impeachable offense. Biden professed to literally the same act on television when he *withheld humanitarian aid* to have a prosecutor removed.

Is there corroborating evidence about this Quid Pro Quo from 3rd parties, or is this some Kavanagh type shit? @PurpleToad

Simple fact is Obamas economy sucked and the recession was not solely to blame.

No. There is no direct evidence. Proving motivation is nearly impossible.

i don't think 80-82 was worse https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/653120961176010788/653121007451897858/usademandfromcredit1.png?width=365&height=300

All evidence beyond the transcript has been second, third, or fourth hand accounts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/08/impeachment-testimony-5-takeaways-fiona-hill-transcript/2530101001/
`n early November, Fiona Hill testified that Sondland, as a newcomer unaccustomed to diplomatic protocols, exhibited behavior that was "comical" but "deeply concerning," and his lack of adherence to security protocols made him a "counterintelligence risk." Hill testified that in July, Sondland attended a meeting with Ukrainian officials and told them that an Oval Office meeting with Trump would occur if investigations began.`
Some weird-ass shit on his end, NGL

Fiona Hills testimony offered no direct evidence, period.

Pure conjecture and opinion.

reagan admin also had a similar pattern of deficit spending when you account for the drop in demand from credit that comes from private sector deleveraging https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/653120961176010788/653121007451897858/usademandfromcredit1.png?width=365&height=300

whoops wrong picture

`Appearing in a closed-door inquiry on November 15, in a written opening statement Holmes said he heard Trump ask, "So, he's gonna do the investigation?" and Sondland replied, "he's gonna do it" adding Zelensky will do "anything you ask him to." Holmes also testified that Sondland later told him that Trump "did not give a shit about Ukraine" and "only cared about the big stuff ... the big stuff that benefits the president like the Biden investigation that Mr. Giuliani was pushing."`
So the most evidence that Trump is doing skeevy shit with Giuliani for the Biden Investigation is.....anecdotal?

This is super surreal trying to keep track of current conversation while you all are chattering about something else