Message from @SuperHeroDeluxe

Discord ID: 655289356323520512


2019-12-14 05:53:09 UTC  

it's that when war occurs it must be fought properly, it must be concluded properly

2019-12-14 05:53:19 UTC  

oh, you're british?

2019-12-14 05:53:29 UTC  

the US has the same problem

2019-12-14 05:53:41 UTC  

getting into a bunch of wars and not fighting to win really.

2019-12-14 05:53:53 UTC  

No Canadian

2019-12-14 05:54:52 UTC  

us USA people tend to do wars down south style, lots of duct tape and superglue

2019-12-14 05:56:05 UTC  

But look at the european empires, see where they've been. Look at native NA populations, African populations, what they've done and the way their territories have shifted and which ones are stable or not stable.

2019-12-14 05:58:10 UTC  

Areas where one group has successfully subjugated the others for a long time and either continue to hold power, or have otherwise transitioned into a coexisting state, those are the stable ones

2019-12-14 05:59:12 UTC  

Areas where the invaders have come, conquered, then left or lost control, those are areas of instability.

2019-12-14 05:59:25 UTC  

this seems to be very consistent

2019-12-14 05:59:31 UTC  

for obvious reason

2019-12-14 05:59:39 UTC  

I saw the word *trebuchet* and now I'm invested.

2019-12-14 06:01:59 UTC  

The long and short of it is. If you're going to get into a war, not that you should, after victory you need to be able to secure and occupy territory for at a long time.

2019-12-14 06:02:26 UTC  

Depends on your desired outcome.

2019-12-14 06:03:19 UTC  

If you seek to exert biological dominance over the largest geographic area with no regards to social stability or the establishment of government, the Mongol Empire comes to mind.

2019-12-14 06:03:59 UTC  

But for the longevity and prosperity of a nation, you're arguments solid.

2019-12-14 06:04:09 UTC  

I'm talking about for example if one side is trying to genocide you, and you want them to stop.

2019-12-14 06:04:21 UTC  

you can't just beat them in and leave

2019-12-14 06:04:33 UTC  

that just fuels the fire for their next attempt

2019-12-14 06:05:08 UTC  

Not necessarily. Take the Armenian Genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire.

2019-12-14 06:05:57 UTC  

right, a core idea in war is that your end objective is a psychological defeat @Bringerof_D

2019-12-14 06:06:05 UTC  

occupation must last long enough that the ones who held the original ideology that pushed them to hate you are dead. Long enough that those who hold a grudge over their defeat are dead. Long enough that everyone alive has lived under your rule, your system and considers it to be normal.

2019-12-14 06:07:12 UTC  

That's an unfortunate truth. The eradication of the opposing ideology and complete demoralization of a people is truly required for the death of a culture.

2019-12-14 06:07:44 UTC  

practicality often stands at odds with morality unfortunately.

2019-12-14 06:09:01 UTC  

Additionally, removing a system required the inception of a more preferable societal structure to prevent resurgence. This is historically accomplished by individual and economic empowerment, while the subjugation of conquered nations instills the seeds of contempt for future warfare.

2019-12-14 06:09:09 UTC  

exactly

2019-12-14 06:09:29 UTC  

when i say occupy, its not neccesarily by oppression and force

2019-12-14 06:09:48 UTC  

The Treaty of Versailles being the best example of how imposing consequences upon the defeated can result in the revenge of a naiton.

2019-12-14 06:10:30 UTC  

effectively you need the majority to live in a state of being where they see the ones who want their old ways back as being crazy

2019-12-14 06:11:23 UTC  

We have internal plumbing and light to see any time of day we need it! Why would we want to go back!

2019-12-14 06:11:47 UTC  

Americans talk about not wanting to nation build but thats exactly what you need to do

2019-12-14 06:12:22 UTC  

Precisely. This touches on the current warfare of the past 2 decades in the Middle East. While foreign forces may seek to captivate the hearts and minds of the conquered, in reality the creation of a new system of government is required for the stability of a region. The Arab Spring was infinitely more successful than the previous campaigns of removing dictators, simply creating a vacuum for new caliphates and leaders to take the mantle.

2019-12-14 06:12:56 UTC  

Can you afford it? Probably fuck no. But if you don't it's just going to be perpetual terrorism.

2019-12-14 06:14:15 UTC  

TLDR: Get into fewer wars. Fight and finish them properly.

2019-12-14 06:14:44 UTC  

You'd probably be fine if you only fought one at a time, but at any given time you seem to be involved in at least 5

2019-12-14 06:15:07 UTC  

Or simply destabilize a region to topple dictators and instill the idea of Democracy.

2019-12-14 06:15:23 UTC  

yeah, no they've tried that

2019-12-14 06:15:39 UTC  

It's proved successful in a handful of South American countries.

2019-12-14 06:16:03 UTC  

The challenge is that in such small geographic areas by comparison, new dictators simply arise and replace their former heads of state.

2019-12-14 06:16:12 UTC  

And that often this has served US interests.

2019-12-14 06:16:34 UTC  

and that worked because the area wasn't the stronghold of a religion that frowns upon the very idea of personal choice, much less democracy