Message from @SuperHeroDeluxe
Discord ID: 655289356323520512
it's that when war occurs it must be fought properly, it must be concluded properly
oh, you're british?
the US has the same problem
getting into a bunch of wars and not fighting to win really.
No Canadian
us USA people tend to do wars down south style, lots of duct tape and superglue
But look at the european empires, see where they've been. Look at native NA populations, African populations, what they've done and the way their territories have shifted and which ones are stable or not stable.
Areas where one group has successfully subjugated the others for a long time and either continue to hold power, or have otherwise transitioned into a coexisting state, those are the stable ones
Areas where the invaders have come, conquered, then left or lost control, those are areas of instability.
this seems to be very consistent
for obvious reason
I saw the word *trebuchet* and now I'm invested.
The long and short of it is. If you're going to get into a war, not that you should, after victory you need to be able to secure and occupy territory for at a long time.
Depends on your desired outcome.
If you seek to exert biological dominance over the largest geographic area with no regards to social stability or the establishment of government, the Mongol Empire comes to mind.
But for the longevity and prosperity of a nation, you're arguments solid.
I'm talking about for example if one side is trying to genocide you, and you want them to stop.
you can't just beat them in and leave
that just fuels the fire for their next attempt
Not necessarily. Take the Armenian Genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire.
occupation must last long enough that the ones who held the original ideology that pushed them to hate you are dead. Long enough that those who hold a grudge over their defeat are dead. Long enough that everyone alive has lived under your rule, your system and considers it to be normal.
That's an unfortunate truth. The eradication of the opposing ideology and complete demoralization of a people is truly required for the death of a culture.
practicality often stands at odds with morality unfortunately.
Additionally, removing a system required the inception of a more preferable societal structure to prevent resurgence. This is historically accomplished by individual and economic empowerment, while the subjugation of conquered nations instills the seeds of contempt for future warfare.
exactly
when i say occupy, its not neccesarily by oppression and force
The Treaty of Versailles being the best example of how imposing consequences upon the defeated can result in the revenge of a naiton.
effectively you need the majority to live in a state of being where they see the ones who want their old ways back as being crazy
We have internal plumbing and light to see any time of day we need it! Why would we want to go back!
Americans talk about not wanting to nation build but thats exactly what you need to do
Precisely. This touches on the current warfare of the past 2 decades in the Middle East. While foreign forces may seek to captivate the hearts and minds of the conquered, in reality the creation of a new system of government is required for the stability of a region. The Arab Spring was infinitely more successful than the previous campaigns of removing dictators, simply creating a vacuum for new caliphates and leaders to take the mantle.
Can you afford it? Probably fuck no. But if you don't it's just going to be perpetual terrorism.
TLDR: Get into fewer wars. Fight and finish them properly.
You'd probably be fine if you only fought one at a time, but at any given time you seem to be involved in at least 5
Or simply destabilize a region to topple dictators and instill the idea of Democracy.
yeah, no they've tried that
It's proved successful in a handful of South American countries.
The challenge is that in such small geographic areas by comparison, new dictators simply arise and replace their former heads of state.
And that often this has served US interests.
and that worked because the area wasn't the stronghold of a religion that frowns upon the very idea of personal choice, much less democracy