Message from @Death in June
Discord ID: 665721188601036820
fascism was an evolution of socialism tho
evolution is being used in two different ways here
But first we must complete the Libertarian dictatorship
Democratisation of the Workplace that Socialists want really isn't that bad of an idea
I think facism is a workable communist state
Well to be fair Marx thought (he had a lot of retarded ideas) that socialism and eventually communism would occur in industrial capitalist nations.
but horrible still
We need to ensure people have freedom through violent force
marx thought that socialism was an evolution of capitalism in the same way he thought capitalism was an evolution of feudalism
not at all. by definition communism and the legitimate state cannot coexist
he thought that capitalism would proletarianize the masses paving way for a proletarian revolution and for the proletariat to take the reins of state power from the bourgeoisie
@The Electric Lizard sure, in a certain sense, EVERYTHING is "arguable." But that doesn't mean there's any sort of reasonable grounds for your side of the argument
facism is just communism that works
Well Socialism can improve on Capitalism in many ways
Socialism didn't grow from capitalism, it's a separate system of economics that was built to leech off capitalism. But they're two very separate systems
the way in which fascism was an "evolution" of socialism is quite distinct from this
Of course industrial capitalist nations treat people better than communist ones so communism happened in agrarian feudal nations where there are little means of production to seize.
Like Democratisation of the Workplace that i mentioned before @Benjamin Henry
I mean, in a way that's not untrue, what with the widespread conception of the upper classes as being self-absorbed and an active detriment to the working class
a conception largely produced by evidence and experience, bear in mind
fascists rejected socialism but saw within socialist movements (specifically syndicalist ones) a legitimate movement that should be recognized in its role as an expression of proletarian interests
The only thing fascism could see socialism had a point on was central authority and the supposed grand failure of liberalism
Free Association as much a "democratization of the workplace" as any bullshit Marx ever proposed, and it doesn't require an overthrow of any existing power structures to work
Democratization of the workplace is a fundamentally stupid idea. Here, lets work through it. Say your democratic workplace manages a profit. You hold a vote to;
1. Hire more people and expand
2. Give everyone a raise
3. reduce the work week by 2 hours.
What wins the vote?????
whatever people vote for
It's inherently a better system
or whatever the managers who people elected decide
That would be up to the workers @Jym
i mean worker cooperatives empirically function fine
that's not as singularly apparent as you seem to believe
@The Electric Lizard
Have you met other human beings? It is going to be 2 or 3.
The whole idea of Democratisation of the workplace is the perception which in many ways is correct that the boss does none of the work and takes most of the profit
It would quickly turn workplaces into student councils, popularity contents
I mean I agree, just blanket democratizing all business isn't a great idea, but blanket assuming the ones that do will all cater to the self interest of the workers 100% of the time is just as ignorant
though that neglects to mention that the boss takes all the risk on whether or not the business fails @The Electric Lizard
The workers have no need to take control of the means of production. That whole issue assumes that people have to be slotted into predetermined jobs and stay there for their whole lives
Why're you CEO?
I was captain of the football team and I got a hot GF
in regards to the distinction between fascism and socialism economically i think this chart is good https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/653120961176010788/663768647097122904/economicconfigurations2.png?width=1593&height=1700
And takes most of the risks. Most businesses fail by the third year. Their employees and suppliers get paid and they go broke.
Democratizing of the Workplace under Capitalism is probably the best way to do things
Because it keeps Liberty