they're both immutable characteristics

Because the State has an obligation in my view to treat it's citizens fairely

Private individuals don't

but when it comes to immigration we aren't talking about citizens are we

So are we talking ethnicity or race here in chat right now?

Both

Ok, The State has an obligation to treat people who want to come into the country fairly

We shouldn't have an immigration policy based around race

Race is an immutable factor that shouldn't stop someone from immigrating

but why

Race or difference in ethnicity is going to have an effect in how they adapt (or won't) to the society they move into

@Death in June What do you mean why?

Because enlightenment values

The more familiar you are with someone, the more someone is like you, the more you will trust them and be comfortable around them

The less you have in common, the bigger the potential for a recipe of disaster

Mates are also selected on genetic similarity

Generally

because i want the state to select citizens who will be a good fit in my society, and looking at one's ancestry is an extremely effective way of determining that

Do you mean why shouldn't we discriminate based on immutable characteristics? @Death in June

No it really isn't

It really is

okay

We shouldn't stop someone from immigrating into the nation based on factors beyond their control

does that part actually matter to you though

like if you accepted it was an effective way of determining that

would you change your stance

or is this not relevant to the point

No i wouldn't

I simply don't believe it is fair for us to stop someone from immigrating based on their ancestry which they had no control over

do you think it would be okay to, in the immigration process, discriminate against people who have antisocial personality disorder?

Yes

To an extent though

Should we discriminate by intelligence?

is antisocial personality disorder not an immutable trait

Is gender not an immutable trait

It's an immutable trait that has more of an effect

oh okay

so how effective a trait is in determining how well someone integrates into our society does matter

even if it is immutable

We shouldn't discriminate based on immutable traits unless that immutable trait has a significant effect on the person

I don't believe race does