Message from @Apotheosis
Discord ID: 401617281873870849
The kid is having his sexuality exploited.
That doesn't happen naturally. That's why we derive the conclusion it's the adults around him doing it.
okay so he is still treated as an individual, it's just that his individual rights are being violated because he cannot consent to sexual exploitation as a child
Also keeping in mind that, barring exceptional cases, the child is too young to be self-aware enough to understand sexuality. Think of this as the kid jumping into a hole without seeing what's at the bottom, by trying to transition at this point he's making major life decisions without knowledge of the decision he's making.
Yes, we assume kids don't have autonomy for many decisions. Kids aren't adults.
right
This server should add some political subroles (Liberalist, Libertrain, Progressive, exc.).
If it did, I'd do as best to avoid them as much as I can.
Not that I'm centrist, I doubt it, I just don't want a label slapped on my head.
It's going to leave implications that might be wholly inaccurate.
Yea, unless you let people make their own subrole, well at least mitigate.
Alright how about this: we are still deciding as society what the best course of his life should be and enforcing it if we intervene here
here, we are deciding what this individual should want and should be
it just isn't allowed to be anything sexual since he's a child
but the reasoning for this doesn't have anything to do with violation of individual rights does it?
an outside force is deciding what his well-being should be... because he isn't capable of knowing the right decision?
Children should be left to wolves
would that not apply to people outside of just children, unconscious or disabled?
No cpr for anybody
Mentally incapacitated and uneducated about the relevant topic too.
e.g. women and kids that got lobotomized back when it was cool
It seems that sometimes a societal entity or member of an incapacitated or not-fully-matured individual must make a decision for them, but what is the basis of this moral decision?
what counts as "defense" for a child/incapable person?
The basis is maxisization of individial liberty, that means you make sure they regain their ability to chose if deprived and make sure most if not all choices are reserved when they regain their ability to chose for themself.
Or you leave them for dead
Surely this individual liberty can't come at the expense of that of others, right?
Yes
But also surely, people should be allowed to compete under some conception of a meritocracy. That would result in the meritorious triumphing over not meritorious, at their expense.
However that would be a valid expense, yes?
not everyone can have the "liberty" to be the best
Yes
but some conceptions of competition do not benefit the group, and it is only a tyranny of the strong over the weak by some definition
so then what we really care about is what moral system, what moral principles we should compete under, that benefit the group
did I use any sleight of hand there?
or is it that individual rights and benefits must be balanced with the good of the collective?
what defines that balance?
well, that would be what I suggest as the basis for morality: principles that promote survival and reproduction within the group, that promote power and stability for competition with other groups
and against nature
a balance completely toward individualism would dissolve the group and turn individuals against each other in destructive way
as for a balance skewed completely toward collectivism, it's a bit harder to show why that is not a good idea
I need to introduce a few more things
but the point is... morality is affected by evolutionary forces that act on the survival and reproduction of the group, not necessarily just the individuals