Message from @Goblin_Slayer_Floki

Discord ID: 529402267414036503


2018-12-31 20:52:07 UTC  

You argue that capitalism must expand

2018-12-31 20:52:14 UTC  

@✿ Mittens ✿ You know that there are free market opportunities to help the environment?

2018-12-31 20:52:15 UTC  

I disagree.

2018-12-31 20:52:17 UTC  

i dont even know where to start with that Mittens

2018-12-31 20:52:40 UTC  

i'm pretty damn sure that guy is just a copypasting asswipe, fitzy

2018-12-31 20:52:42 UTC  

Cap is about supply and demand

2018-12-31 20:52:53 UTC  

I just wrote it on the spot, nyuu

2018-12-31 20:52:56 UTC  

saw him do that a few times already

2018-12-31 20:52:57 UTC  

@nyuuns2 No, they've been here for a while

2018-12-31 20:53:08 UTC  

ah okay then

2018-12-31 20:53:10 UTC  

There are resources that we either reuse, or cannot deplete.

2018-12-31 20:53:10 UTC  

Mittens actually writes this

2018-12-31 20:53:58 UTC  

Look, the free market is cleaning up the Pacific garbage patch

2018-12-31 20:54:03 UTC  

And the ideal capitalist system would be 100% efficient, reusing the resources it spends.

2018-12-31 20:54:06 UTC  

Are govts doing that?

2018-12-31 20:54:42 UTC  

Mittens is not arguing about govt right now, Fitz. Just economics.

2018-12-31 20:54:51 UTC  

Ahh, okay. But still

2018-12-31 20:54:52 UTC  

1 inequality is in all systems. Communism and socialism create far more than capitalism. And they prevent movement which capitalism allows.

Environment is a touchy one. Species have been going extinct for eons. And it will come back wit other ones. Also co2 is a minor polutant compared to even water vapor.

2018-12-31 20:54:57 UTC  

inequality is present in every system. even "communist" systems had massive inequalities, much moreso than capitalism at any point.

the third world has had lots of economic growth in the past few decades due to capitalism, which has brought so many people out of poverty.

in regards to wages, there are new occupations being created every day. first starting out as extremely well paying but with low number of people who can do a job, but over time was more people join the occupation, their wages fall due to supply and demand. think of airline pilots. they were once highly respected and very well paid. now they are glorified bus drivers.

Regarding the environment, I agree that the climate changes, however I disagree with the amount of human involvement. we just don't know how much is the fault of humans at this point, and as more and more evidence becomes available, its starting to look more like a catastrophic changes, rather than gradual changes (IMO of course). 99% of all species that have ever existed have gone extinct, so I think it would be foolish to think of the world and its ecology as unchanging. plus, if you are really concerned about the environment, you should be looking at china... a "communist" (or at the very least, socialist) country.

2018-12-31 20:55:00 UTC  

I'm addressing the environmental aspect

2018-12-31 20:55:36 UTC  

Inequality isnt inherently bad. The lack of ability of movement up and down is

2018-12-31 20:56:00 UTC  

People don't like to live in a dirty world. What makes you think there isn't a market for cleaning it?

2018-12-31 20:56:18 UTC  

Yes. People are not equal, naturally.

2018-12-31 20:57:06 UTC  

There is. Recycling is a huge market tbh

2018-12-31 20:57:09 UTC  

plus, theres also the fact that as people become more wealthy, they start worrying more and more about the environment. this would suggest that we should be encouraging capitalism to bring the entire world up to continue making people to become aware of the environment.

2018-12-31 20:57:18 UTC  

There is (probably) a place for everyone, no matter how useless, in a capitalistic society, however.

2018-12-31 20:57:40 UTC  

Which is how I am holding out hope!

2018-12-31 20:57:46 UTC  

people taking the initiative to clean horse shit from the streets is a great example @Fitzydog

2018-12-31 20:58:04 UTC  

and they made money from it

2018-12-31 20:58:35 UTC  

People arepaid for services if they are valued, yes

2018-12-31 20:58:51 UTC  

and cleanliness is valued

2018-12-31 20:59:41 UTC  

Nobody want to live in polution. If you can fix it for a fee, most would want to pay that fee. Some will not but enough will.

2018-12-31 21:00:04 UTC  

The issue is gov is inefficient

2018-12-31 21:00:24 UTC  

although there are places where the garbage piles up like in India, but i dont know enough about their situation to understand why

2018-12-31 21:00:25 UTC  

And tend to have political biases ergo paris accord which would effectively change nothing

2018-12-31 21:00:26 UTC  

But if there's economic growth in the third world, it cannot reach the level of the first world. Even mainstream centrist sources like CNN report this, but de-growth theorists report the same thing.

Environmental climate change has a 99% certainty rate among scientists that it is caused by industrialization.

Communism is a bad system, probably much, much worse than capitalism. However, a sustainable system, one based on worker co-ops, could be much better. I would highly recommend reading Bertrand Russell's Proposed Roads to Freedom. The most beautiful thing about a worker commune, de-growth society, which is based on community co-operation, instead of wage labor and profit, would be that much less work would be required. If you had a society, in which production was meant to sustain, not simply to grow, you wouldn't have so many people with unnecessary jobs, simply producing to earn the right to live.

This could lead to an explosion in creativity, intellectual pursuites, and Einstein on every corner, as they say. The beautiful part about it is, we may not have an option to to turn towards this goal, and achieve it. There are people who can explain why this society, as opposed to the beurocratic state run socialist societies, would lead to a much higher quality of existence, likely much better than I can.

2018-12-31 21:00:47 UTC  

First, disregard CNN

2018-12-31 21:01:03 UTC  

I regard claims on the validity of their arguments, not their sources.

2018-12-31 21:01:11 UTC  

I have yet to see evidence that this claim is untrue.

2018-12-31 21:01:19 UTC  

Syndicalism is just another flavor of communism/socialism. Its just who holds the power

2018-12-31 21:01:26 UTC  

Disregarding sources simply out of political bias is the method of the communist who defends North Korea.