as in, it doesn't produce good for the people there and then, and long term

You break through pragmatism with miracles

and then there is the hegelian master slave dialectic and all that jazz

its metaphysical aspect of the spirit and other similar things that different religions talk about

its real

In the long term, that's maybe it

@Banjod How are you defining good?

personal revelation through god

"god"

Health?

but what if someone rapes a woman,
results in a baby,
that baby goes on to cure cancer and save a billion lives..
so ultimately was the rape good?

or what not

good outcome for you and your people

A system needs justification before pragmatism can be bound inside of it

on average

you can only rape if you can get away with it

Let's say someone came on the scene who just walked through a hospital healing hundreds of people

Instant religious base

which is only under very rare circumstances

you're asking me to describe a billion things at the same time @Trommm

liek during suc cesfukl geniocides

@troglodytes Rape is pointless if you don't have the power to keep the mother from aborting.

@Banjod Just define one word.

well, that is why you rape in excess tromm

no, that word is a billion things

you're asking me to describe everything good

Ban, lol

genghis khan was the ultimate chad because of how much seed he spread. Sure some killed themselves and so forth, but in the grand scheme of things, he had a lot of offspring

You define what is pragmatic by defining the system
And treating the rest as a black box
The initial input is what is needed as justification
i.e. a miracle I think

all justification is ad hoc

@Deleted User A miracle is outside that

the idea is if you behave in a way that deeply hurts people, they eventuially will get rid of you

It's not rational

you know objective morality exists, most likely, just by pure honesty. If objective morality didn't exist, you would honestly think someone talking about fking banas are on teh same level as eating healthy foods

It's a fact

thats morals

Or perception

@TheUserNameofPeace we agree here yes

I am defending miracles

But it's a miracle by way of breaking outside of normal day to day causality

no one sane or decent thinks that