I think I get what Mozalbete wants to say and I think he is right but you can't turn people to God as long as they can avoid the consequences of their degenerate lifestyles in the short and mid run. That's why you need somebody who crashes it all or creates the possibility for you to do so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Troitsky_monastery

But Dant, what is it that you want to do? You say that we should lead people to God, that is true, but considering our situation, what is it that you want them to do when they have come to God, if it is not to demand and organize the rebirth of a God-fearing society?

Bring them to church. You can’t change a society without conversion.

A change of government without spiritual preparedness gets you nothing

The disciples did not fight physically against Rome, they let their martyrdom be a witness to the people.

In short, what you suggest is democracy

No

You expect people to convert and willingly get us to a godly government

With nothing being forced

Force conversion is not a real conversion

"forced conversion" is a meme used to refer to laws taking the soul into account rather than the body

And who is going to be the absolute monarch?

They could hate God in their heart but outwardly preform rituals

That is like saying that "forced determination that murder is wrong is not actual determination"

@Daniil God works that out in ways

But thats not how real life works

Again, democracy. "maybe they will not like it, but they will understand they have to vote for it"

I was okay with fascism up until a few months ago. What changed my mind of Jay Dyer’s talks and how fascism isn’t exactly even a total rejection of the enlightenment theory

@Daniil See Constantine the Great

Fascism is a rejection of the rule of the majority

Fascist leaders need to give into the church as well

They are not above the church

I don’t see that being a thing

I guess Christianity isn't good, since Christianity didn't protect us perfectly from the elightement theory happening, which means it didn't reject it completely.

Dude, Franco

Orthodoxy has always rejected the Enlightenment

Franco was Catholic and a threat to Orthodoxy

What happens when I disavow Catholicism?

And the pope?

I don't even understand what that mess is supposed to be

Do you really think that your dear countries where there are no orthodox do not share the same "rights" and "democracy" and "enlightement" nonsense?

Do you thinks Orthodox monks are big fans of democracy?

Do you really think 99% of them aren't?

Monasteries are what really connect heaven and earth

What is that supposed to mean in this context?

That monasteries keep tradition pure and are not as nearly as corrupted as the outside world. They will hold to correct understanding of the world

And what does that have to do with anything?

That your claims of Orthodoxy being Enlightenment crazed is nonsense

First, orthodoxy isn't just "monasteries"

Second, I have just applied your logic that something is bad and must be hated if it doesn't magically protect you against enlightement nonsense. Nothing is going to make the world inmune against that