so essentially it goes down to we use images as an object of prayer but not the focus

So essentially it goes down to don't be a retard lmao

I mean, how much of an autisic brainlet do you have to be to complain about works of devotion?

There was talk of this in the iconoclasm heresy.

i know they're retarded, i just want to show them exactly why they're retarded lol

basically? Because God appeared on earth as man, images of him, as such, are ok

Because it is an insult to wards God that you take a work of devotion and love towards him and spit on it

As for depictions of the Father, well, the entirety of psalms depicts the Father using human terms and imagery.

So it would make sense that the Father could be depicted as such.

Think of it this way. We do not worship the cross when we go to church. We use the cross to better our understanding of the sacrifice of Christ. When we see an effigy of Christ, we don't worship the effigy, but Christ himself

The only think that is Christ himself is the most sacred body and blood.

Too long of an answer, gives too much legitimacy to the retarded position of iconoclasy

Okay. Iconoclasm is fake and gay

Hope that's short and sweet enough

alright i get the gist, usually what i say in arguments but they always just kind of throw up their hands and say "well god said don't make graven images" and then end the argument, so i guess at that point they're just being fags

Thats right

Then if they are going to be autistic, you point out that then you will just carve or paint the image

Their misconception is that the commandment actually means "Don't make any graven images and call it God."

As in, the graven image itself is God.

Idolatry would be if we were to pray at a statue of Mary and say "This statue *is* Mary."

Which literally no apostolic does.

I think the purpose was to uplift the mind. As long as proto humans thought in terms of statuary as 'god' they would not be able to think abstractly.

true, i guess it's hard to place us in the period of pre christianity

so we kind of project our own meaning

where people actually thought the object was a god

That command is exactly Thou shalt have no other gods before me

You could as well complain when a child makes a drawing

Since he is making a "graven image"

People still think that objects are god. The jews thing MonEy-e is a god. That is why they worship it rather than the True God. When you stop thinking of the material realm your mind can focus on other things.

Exodus 20:4-6

**Exodus 20:4-6 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)**

```Dust


<4> Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. <5> Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: <6> And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments. ```

So as you can see, it is ABSURD to understand it outside the context of idolatry

First, because it doesn't only refer to God, or even to heavenly things

Second, because it is precisely among the commandments against idolatry, to avoid idolatry

Third, because it is common sense

well that's the issue i always had with baptists themselves

they project their own feelings toward whatever scriptural quote they have

I'm pretty sure "Make to thyself" must have a more contextual meaning in Hebrew beyond "Just don't do it ever."

i guess you can see that play out after they fell into direct idolatry right afterwards

to show what god meant

thanks for the quick responses lol