Message from @Mozalbete ⳩

Discord ID: 468793216527761408


2018-07-17 14:52:19 UTC  

But the moment someone is Pope, he has authority

2018-07-17 14:52:41 UTC  

No, please don't be coy.

2018-07-17 14:52:54 UTC  

How does a pope become pope

2018-07-17 14:53:20 UTC  

I don't know the exact details about how the Pope is chosen, they are irrelevant here

2018-07-17 14:53:34 UTC  

No it's not

2018-07-17 14:53:54 UTC  

Because if they're chosen by a council or by bishops my point still holds

2018-07-17 14:53:58 UTC  

They are, because authority does not come from a bloodline, but from God

2018-07-17 14:54:04 UTC  

It's literally because of democracy

2018-07-17 14:54:18 UTC  

If they are chosen by a council, there is no voting by any majority of population

2018-07-17 14:54:33 UTC  

Otherwise, you could as well sya that there is a democracy where the population is a single person

2018-07-17 14:55:18 UTC  

Well that's essentially what I am saying. Is that the pope is infallible because you say he's infallible.

2018-07-17 14:55:22 UTC  

The papacy is a lifelong title. The pope does not have to follow any wishes of the majority

2018-07-17 14:55:23 UTC  

That's not an argument

2018-07-17 14:55:38 UTC  

He's infallible because the Church is divine, created by Christ and the Gates of Hell will not prevail

2018-07-17 14:55:50 UTC  

What part of that is not an argument?

2018-07-17 14:55:58 UTC  

The circular part.

2018-07-17 14:56:13 UTC  

What circular part? The original is well established with the creation of the Church by Christ

2018-07-17 14:56:14 UTC  

>Scripture is not the basis of Christianity

2018-07-17 14:56:28 UTC  

>uses scripture to prove point

2018-07-17 14:56:35 UTC  

So?

2018-07-17 14:56:52 UTC  

It is what Christ said, with or without scripture narrating it

2018-07-17 14:57:21 UTC  

I think you are mistaking consistency with circularity

2018-07-17 14:57:34 UTC  

All the pieces fit perfectly with each other, and you call it "circular"

2018-07-17 14:57:43 UTC  

Haha

2018-07-17 14:57:50 UTC  

It doesn't fit perfectly

2018-07-17 14:58:03 UTC  

You use mental gymnastics to shove it together

2018-07-17 14:58:04 UTC  

It does. An unbroken line of succession since Peter

2018-07-17 14:58:13 UTC  

Right

2018-07-17 14:58:17 UTC  

Things have been this way from the first christians

2018-07-17 14:58:31 UTC  

That was decided upon by a council

2018-07-17 14:58:36 UTC  

Irregardless of scripture

2018-07-17 14:58:47 UTC  

Because scripture is not the basis of Christianity

2018-07-17 14:59:05 UTC  

It is precisely through councils that the canon of the Bible was decided

2018-07-17 14:59:13 UTC  

Some centuries after Christ

2018-07-17 14:59:19 UTC  

But it's the one part and interpretation of scripture that you use to define everything you're saying

2018-07-17 14:59:41 UTC  

I'm talking the teachings of those who gave us scripture in the first place

2018-07-17 14:59:53 UTC  

Ok give me an second and let me see if I can explain it you how it comes across to me from your explanation

2018-07-17 15:00:01 UTC  

Without the Church, what you consider to be scripture is just another random collection of writtings

2018-07-17 15:02:05 UTC  

The church is what it is because the council decides the interpretation of scripture. But the only argument from what makes the council right is one part of scripture that means a specific interpretation to that specific council agreed upon? That is definitionally circular reasoning.

2018-07-17 15:06:49 UTC  

The Church exists because Christ created it, and scripture tells us about that creation, but things would be the same way, with or without scripture. The councils, with the final approval of the pope, are an exercise of the Church's authority. There councils result in things like the final canon of scripture, the interpretation of that scripture, and things that are not an interpretation of scripture, but obviously don't contradict the interpretations of scripture.

As it is obvious, the existence of the Church does not contradict scripture, and the creation of the Church is mentioned in Scripture. My mentions of that scripture is to show the contradictions in those who want to accept Scripture but reject the Church.

2018-07-17 15:13:26 UTC  

So everything that the Catholic Church has done, is doing and will do is entirely righteous because of the piece of scripture you quoted because the Church is infallible because of said scripture?