Message from @Mozalbete ⳩

Discord ID: 550984005886148609


2019-03-01 10:06:43 UTC  

It contradicts what you said

2019-03-01 10:06:45 UTC  

Math exists, yes. Hypothetical things exist.

2019-03-01 10:06:58 UTC  

Ah, the part about metaphysics

2019-03-01 10:07:02 UTC  

Math is a language. It describes material reality.

2019-03-01 10:07:24 UTC  

And metaphysics is what deals with reality beyond simple, fallible observations of quantizable things

2019-03-01 10:08:37 UTC  

Physics are boring, always the same, and in the end merely describe our quantization of things we observe

2019-03-01 10:08:53 UTC  

They do not answer da deep questions about reality

2019-03-01 10:10:35 UTC  

I'm not like making up the idea of materialism as just one dude on the internet. I can tell you that I've spoken to other materialists, and they believe in things like math, the mind, and natural law. There's a whole group of us Calvinist Jews, and we even believe in moral deontology. I don't think materialism means what you are saying here.

2019-03-01 10:10:57 UTC  

It's just that we reject things like the "divine spark."

2019-03-01 10:11:03 UTC  

Materialism, as the name implies, reduces things to "matter"

2019-03-01 10:11:13 UTC  

When I say "things" I mean reality

2019-03-01 10:11:17 UTC  

Or the buddhist doctrine that experience is fundamental to reality.

2019-03-01 10:11:25 UTC  

It is the myth of the cavern and the shadows

2019-03-01 10:11:35 UTC  

Sure, matter is important in reality, of course

2019-03-01 10:11:49 UTC  

But there are, of course, things that are not matter. Why would anyone ever beleive that there is only matter?

2019-03-01 10:12:08 UTC  

Just like, why would anyone ever believe that there are only the shadows of the cavern?

2019-03-01 10:12:41 UTC  

It doesn't reduce things, no. Hypothetical things exist in the sense that we can describe reality using language.

2019-03-01 10:12:52 UTC  

Material is the proximate cause of all things.

2019-03-01 10:13:01 UTC  

I'm not talking about hypothetical things. This has nothing to do with hypothetical things

2019-03-01 10:13:25 UTC  

It is silly, and filled with pride, and arbitrary, to want to reduce things to the material

2019-03-01 10:13:43 UTC  

But the motivation is clear: the material is somehow familiar, people are used to it, and it is comfortable to reduce reality to it

2019-03-01 10:14:07 UTC  

Because it is easy, and convenient, to not to have to deal with things that can't be quantized

2019-03-01 10:14:21 UTC  

Things that have no length, or similar properties of the material

2019-03-01 10:14:43 UTC  

Ehh, it's like the great created clockwork. How is that prideful? I'm looking at God's creation the way Robert Boyle did. You are looking at creation and assuming a fundamental substance exists aside from the plane material, and it's totally ad hoc. This is basically Chemistry vs Alchemy.

2019-03-01 10:15:16 UTC  

I can deal with non-physical things while believing in materialism.

2019-03-01 10:15:26 UTC  

I'm just not making the nonsensical, arbitrary assumption that the only things that exist are those that have length or whatever

2019-03-01 10:15:49 UTC  

Matter is not some fundamental thing that is in the basis of reality

2019-03-01 10:16:00 UTC  

Do you believe in a human soul that transcends death?

2019-03-01 10:16:08 UTC  

Is it different from animals?

2019-03-01 10:16:39 UTC  

Of course I do, because death is just the movement of some particles and chemicals or whatever, there is nothing from the material point of view that fundamentally changes

2019-03-01 10:17:08 UTC  

In other words: if thereisn't life of the soul after the events known as death, there was no life to begin with

2019-03-01 10:17:18 UTC  

It's kind of like when I crack a CD in half. The CD will never work again.

2019-03-01 10:17:42 UTC  

So, I have a soul that will exist after I die?

2019-03-01 10:17:46 UTC  

Because "working" just means that some process that tries to spin it and read data will work

2019-03-01 10:17:53 UTC  

in the case of the CD

2019-03-01 10:19:13 UTC  

The soul doesn't disappear because some material particles move in some way. There is an important connection to the body, so death is important, but there is literally no reason to think that death annihilates the soul.

2019-03-01 10:19:54 UTC  

Can you affirm that I have a soul that will exist after I die?

2019-03-01 10:20:15 UTC  

If you define "life" as the flow of some impulses or chemicals or whatever in some arbitrary region of space, sure, there is nothing after death. But that definition of life makes life completely empty of any value or special.

2019-03-01 10:20:30 UTC  

The obvious question is "how do you know?", but I'd like to just flesh out your beliefs first.

2019-03-01 10:20:44 UTC  

Well, I know that death is just the movement of some arbitrary particles in space

2019-03-01 10:20:54 UTC  

Nothing in the material world has changed in a significant way