Message from @Mozalbete ⳩

Discord ID: 550983467068948480


2019-03-01 10:04:58 UTC  

Materialism consists in reducing reality to the material

2019-03-01 10:05:11 UTC  

There are a ton of qualitative differences between me and a rock.

2019-03-01 10:05:18 UTC  

I have the capacity to think.

2019-03-01 10:05:51 UTC  

Materialism completely denies metaphysics. I deny metaphysics. You haven't touched on that.

2019-03-01 10:05:57 UTC  

In the materialist world, thinking is just a bunch of particles going through some material medium, which is not different from whatever particles shape a rock, and interact with random forces

2019-03-01 10:06:18 UTC  

Denying metaphysics is like a child trying to deny that maths exist

2019-03-01 10:06:23 UTC  

Uhh, what's wrong with that, and how does it devalue anything?

2019-03-01 10:06:43 UTC  

It contradicts what you said

2019-03-01 10:06:45 UTC  

Math exists, yes. Hypothetical things exist.

2019-03-01 10:06:58 UTC  

Ah, the part about metaphysics

2019-03-01 10:07:02 UTC  

Math is a language. It describes material reality.

2019-03-01 10:07:24 UTC  

And metaphysics is what deals with reality beyond simple, fallible observations of quantizable things

2019-03-01 10:08:37 UTC  

Physics are boring, always the same, and in the end merely describe our quantization of things we observe

2019-03-01 10:08:53 UTC  

They do not answer da deep questions about reality

2019-03-01 10:10:35 UTC  

I'm not like making up the idea of materialism as just one dude on the internet. I can tell you that I've spoken to other materialists, and they believe in things like math, the mind, and natural law. There's a whole group of us Calvinist Jews, and we even believe in moral deontology. I don't think materialism means what you are saying here.

2019-03-01 10:10:57 UTC  

It's just that we reject things like the "divine spark."

2019-03-01 10:11:03 UTC  

Materialism, as the name implies, reduces things to "matter"

2019-03-01 10:11:13 UTC  

When I say "things" I mean reality

2019-03-01 10:11:17 UTC  

Or the buddhist doctrine that experience is fundamental to reality.

2019-03-01 10:11:25 UTC  

It is the myth of the cavern and the shadows

2019-03-01 10:11:35 UTC  

Sure, matter is important in reality, of course

2019-03-01 10:11:49 UTC  

But there are, of course, things that are not matter. Why would anyone ever beleive that there is only matter?

2019-03-01 10:12:08 UTC  

Just like, why would anyone ever believe that there are only the shadows of the cavern?

2019-03-01 10:12:41 UTC  

It doesn't reduce things, no. Hypothetical things exist in the sense that we can describe reality using language.

2019-03-01 10:12:52 UTC  

Material is the proximate cause of all things.

2019-03-01 10:13:01 UTC  

I'm not talking about hypothetical things. This has nothing to do with hypothetical things

2019-03-01 10:13:25 UTC  

It is silly, and filled with pride, and arbitrary, to want to reduce things to the material

2019-03-01 10:13:43 UTC  

But the motivation is clear: the material is somehow familiar, people are used to it, and it is comfortable to reduce reality to it

2019-03-01 10:14:07 UTC  

Because it is easy, and convenient, to not to have to deal with things that can't be quantized

2019-03-01 10:14:21 UTC  

Things that have no length, or similar properties of the material

2019-03-01 10:14:43 UTC  

Ehh, it's like the great created clockwork. How is that prideful? I'm looking at God's creation the way Robert Boyle did. You are looking at creation and assuming a fundamental substance exists aside from the plane material, and it's totally ad hoc. This is basically Chemistry vs Alchemy.

2019-03-01 10:15:16 UTC  

I can deal with non-physical things while believing in materialism.

2019-03-01 10:15:26 UTC  

I'm just not making the nonsensical, arbitrary assumption that the only things that exist are those that have length or whatever

2019-03-01 10:15:49 UTC  

Matter is not some fundamental thing that is in the basis of reality

2019-03-01 10:16:00 UTC  

Do you believe in a human soul that transcends death?

2019-03-01 10:16:08 UTC  

Is it different from animals?

2019-03-01 10:16:39 UTC  

Of course I do, because death is just the movement of some particles and chemicals or whatever, there is nothing from the material point of view that fundamentally changes

2019-03-01 10:17:08 UTC  

In other words: if thereisn't life of the soul after the events known as death, there was no life to begin with

2019-03-01 10:17:18 UTC  

It's kind of like when I crack a CD in half. The CD will never work again.

2019-03-01 10:17:42 UTC  

So, I have a soul that will exist after I die?

2019-03-01 10:17:46 UTC  

Because "working" just means that some process that tries to spin it and read data will work