That doesn't mean that people don't choose

Kek.

I know that, but even grace doesn't guarantee someone's salvation

@ninjacats did you see the video I linked

but thats what the New Testament says

It enables it

What version we talking about

But you can just as easily reject it and turn to evil

better be KJV

@Deleted User yes i did

The NT makes it very clear, doesn't say that those who receive grace already have a guaranteed salvatgion and those who don't a guaranteed doom. We are always told to be vigilant, to choose good and to be careful with temptations that can ruin our prospects of salvation

but if you die not rejecting Christ, that's all that matters. literally we are so unworthy nothing we can possibly do matters. the point is we are so fallen it doesnt matter, but those whom God has chosen will, through the Holy Spirit, be driven to do good acts as much as a human can do

By that logic, every protestant is secured a spot in heaven

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every christian engaging in carnal sin

Salvation by grace alone is a basic teaching shared by catholics, orthodox, and pretty much all

for example my father who still fornicates

But saying

_dang, I died literally knowing that Christ is the truth yet I purposefully fell in negligence and couldn’t change myself for good, still saved though!_

That God just givves grace to some that have a guaranteed salvation is an abomination

What is salvation by grace?

That encourages extreme fence sitting

Those who do good acts are tempted by evil, and many times they do evil acts, and many fall completely and become perverse.

@MawLr you will never be good enough no matter how hard you try

imagine knowing the Truth of the Lord and then not acting on it

@Deleted User The fact that we aren't saved by our own merits, and that the grace of God is what actually saves us

by that logic, every practicing Jew will also be secured a spot in heaven, and almost all are aware of the core teachings of Christianity

Oh.

I can get behind that.

If you read some of their texts it even says they believe that God gives their people eternal Grace

@sodomite its not just knowing Jesus, but believing He saved you

Okay prottie.

But calvinists go a step further and say that grace guarantees someone's salvation. so if someone isn't savved, that person never received grace and it was never possible for him to be saved

basically

Isn't that thinly veiled predestination?

Calvinism is really just preachign determinism

Predestination is another thing

we cannot save ourselves. only divine intervention will save us.

all are unworthy, always

those whom God has chosen will naturally do at least SOME good (as much good as a human can do) because of the Holy Spirit intervening and guiding the will

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