Message from @Beemann
Discord ID: 531704600051318784
The constitution merely enumerates rights. It’s not the source of rights
^
@amlam Yep, but our constitution is one of the only places in the world (if not the only) that abide by a persons human rights.
the constitution only means anything insofar as the public enforces the rights enumerated within. The public has not enforced these rights
Of course. We’re unique in that way but that doesn’t mean that the rest of the world isn’t having their innate human rights being violated
The constitution has certainly be encroached upon but it’s done remarkably well in holding up against the slow creep of tyranny
Pretty much better than anywhere or any time in history
How are we measuring the "slow creep of tyranny"?
With a ruler
Get it?
A ruler?
most of the constitutional encroachments have occurred within the past 100 years or so
Like the instrument and also the tyrant?
👌
But my point was only that while we have slowly lost some of our freedom over the past couple centuries we’ve lost a lot less than other nations that should be compared to us like the UK and Canada
Not relative to what you had, no
Canada's constitution popped up in the 70s and was basically swiss cheese. UK never had a constitution
from the early 1900s onward there has been a steady erosion of rights that the average American *did* have
Exactly. Maybe they’d be able to own butter knives if they had a constitution that protected that
"The constitution merely enumerates rights. It’s not the source of rights" - You, minutes ago
The only point that actually matters in the whole constitution is the existence of an armed populace. That has been and continues to be the only check against government overreach, and only when actually utilized
I’m in agreement with myself. You have rights that are constantly under threat. Our constitution enumerates them and says “government hands off” whereas other countries have constitutions that don’t go as far. They end up being violated while we hold onto more rights
The government hasnt been hands off though lol
It’s been more hands off than it otherwise would have been
Without the constitution as a road block we would’ve been Canada in 1777
Look at it this way. Canada set the bar almost at the floor, and basically nudged it slightly lower
America has set the bar high, and has been dropping year by year, in incredibly significant ways
@amlam Why In The World Would Anyone Need An Assault Butter Knife! We need more conman sense knife control!
Again, the constition doesn't do that, the populace does
and you're heading into an era where the public, the average American, does not care to protect their rights
We need an actual rapist on the Supreme Court
Then all of this will be solved
This phony rapist, Kavanaugh isn’t cutting the non-consenting mustard
Alrighty bois. I’m going to bed. It’s been real and it’s been fun. But it ain’t been real fun.
Has it been feal run though?
@Beemann You might be confusing the ideal with what we have "allowed", and no its not just the 2A that matters in our constitution, it all matters. Most are not more important then the other (unless we decide to change something, its all important).
Humans have, and will always want to change things "for the better" without understanding the value of what that change will bring about. This means we always have to fight over and over what we hold to be truly beneficial for everyone, not just our own short sighted life. And yes we will lose things, yes we have lost some freedoms, but we have also allowed it to be peaceful. We still have are foundations in place that allows us to either rebuild or keep the ever looming risks of losing more at bay. All that matters is how far people are willing to risk the backlash of encroaching on even more freedoms.
None of the other rights listed in the constitution are worth anything without enforcement. Ultimately, any political power you can wield is force, whether by action or by threat. There is no real way around this. In the United States, the force the government can exert is counteracted by the force the people can exert against it. This counterbalance is enshrined in the core ideals of the nation. Without 2A, there is ultimately no constitution. Without threat of enforcement, the government is free to "reinterpret" your "rights" in whatever way they please. They can, and have, been able to play people's selfish desires against the integrity of the system they claim to serve and uphold. They have managed to do this at a rather alarming rate over the course of the 20th and, so far, the 21st centuries. Your citizen's militia has been undermined, your private conversations surveilled without warrant, and the power of your state has been drained in favour of an ever-growing federal mess. The ability to keep your rights is not being utilized. It likely will continue to not be utilized, given that people are actively supporting the erosion of their freedoms via your electoral process. Not even Trump, Mr Wildcard himself, has truly pushed back against the steady stifling of freedom
So, normal human behavior?
That "normal human behaviour" is the slow death of your rights, m8, but you havent addressed the main (and initial) point
If you were on an island with 5 other people, an administrator and 4 "citizens" and I gave you the option between a piece of paper with your "rights" written on it, and a firearm, which would you consider more important?
If you stack every other right in the constitution against 2A, 2A still wins. Nothing surpasses self defense, as an extension of self ownership. From this, all else is derived
Yes, things are bad, but they are also good. I don't overlook one because of the other. I don't fight for utopia, i fight for what are constitutions upholds even if Humans can fail to live up to them all the time. That doesn't mean i give up on the whole system.