Both of those definitions (from Webster) fit infant circumcision

Of both girls *and* boys, to be clear.

@uncephalized what if it's to cut up or alter so as to make perfect?

There's no debate here if you wanr your dick looking like Jewish dick go ahead

Do whatever you want to your *own* dick @DJ_Anuz just keep the scalpel away from innocent children.

I don't care about it being a jewish thing, i care about damaging healthy infants.

Doesn't FGM remove/disable the whole clitoris though? I don't think that's equivalent, it would be more like chopping off the whole head

FGM is like 4 different things

Most FGM isn't the worst procedure that can be done. As well, do you know how much damage circumcision does? @micamike45

Idk. My penis seems fine.

That's good.

I mean, they still work apparently

......

And I don't know of any instances where circumcision has resulted in a damaged penis.

Other than freak cases

Do uncircumsized men get super orgasms or something?

Guess i'll repost something in case you haven't seen.

Many might not care, but will still bring this up. For those who still argue for circumcision (or maybe even those who don't care).
Circumcision started as an effort to controlling male sexuality https://youtu.be/ESnSxIpabgQ (small video about that) and nothing to do with "health" (outside of when its medically necessary), this has only come in to discussion in an attempt to justify a terrible practice. Any "benefit" people will point to for this practice can easily be dealt with from normal care. MGM is no different then FGM (and most times worst).
This http://www.circumcisionharm.org/research.htm has a lot of studies and links about the topic.
And here are some videos about the issue
https://youtu.be/tL5repF3JFc
https://youtu.be/U5mVLCrrmQo
https://youtu.be/Mdh5IYg7A9E
https://youtu.be/xd81GBsk62g

I could bring up more links and videos about this topic, but many may find this issue annoying or not worth their time. But this is still a big issue that effects mostly men/boys around the world (and some women). Feel free not to care, and i won't tell you to not say what you want, but maybe check out a video from Karan on the topic if you wish to downplay this issue https://youtu.be/LxhJXw0I4EA.

@DJ_Anuz "I don't know of any instances where circumcision has resulted in a damaged penis." Aside from the fact that it is damage by its very nature, botched circumcisions can and do occur and can result in complete loss of function or even amputation of the entire organ.

And yes, uncircumsized penises do "work better"--the foreskin is self-lubricating, making both masturbation and intercourse easier for both partners. Both premature ejaculation *and* difficulty climaxing are less common in intact men.

I haven't seen all of those, but the remarks about suicide seem to coincide with getting circumcised after they reach maturity. I don't see a drastic increase in suicide rates between cultures that circumcise at birth, and those that don't.

As for the remarks about circumcision being for controlling male sexuality, who cares what a few philosophers on the matter say about it? The practice occurred well before they came about.

Having been circumcised, and being the horny bastard that I am, I haven't experienced any diminishment in my sex drive, nor the other circumcised men I know.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't reduce sexual stimulation, but if Jews, Muslims, or Christians wish to cut off the foreskin, I don't want governments telling them they can't.

@uncephalized In a quick google search I found that botched circumcisions usually occur when they are done after maturity is met, and in underdeveloped nations.

Also, the foreskin takes up volume so the circumcision literally made your dick smaller.

@uncephalized In my case, that's probably a good thing.

You don't have to defend the practice just because you are not intact. I'm circumsized too.

@uncephalized Its understandable for people to do so, if they don't notice anything wrong. It is less of a problem for a person.

I'm not calling myself a cripple, I don't have any real problems because of it, but if I could go back in time and tell my parents *not* to let a doctor strap me down to a board and perform unnecessary surgery on my newborn genitals without anesthesia while I screamed in pain and fear, making one of my earliest experiences one of terror, betrayal and suffering, yeah, you bet I would.

I just don't see it as that damaging of a practice if done properly. I most likely won't circumcise my children, I just don't see it as such a damaging practice in the west that parents who opt to should be criticized.

Unless they're intentionally trying to inflict pain.

You've never watched a circumcision procedure have you DJ?

"Lower satisfaction with one’s circumcision status—but not men’s actual circumcision status—was associated with worse body image and
sexual functioning" Being angry about it is the cause of the problems according to this study they tried to spin

I don't even care *that* much about the long-term ramifications. Just learn about how the surgery works. It's horrific torture and they do it to newborn boys *with no anesthetic*

In all fairness, no newborn remembers it.

I had a friend that got the chickenpox to grow under his foreskin, and I tell you what, that left him scarred a whole lot more than circumcision would have.

I'm not sure none of you here know how terrible it is to do this (well some might).

@DJ_Anuz "In all fairness, no newborn remembers it" Not true.

Newborns don't have conscious memories of the procedure but I have read studies that indicate circumcized boys are more fearful and sensitive to pain than intact.

The notion that such an event would have no impact on a developing infant is childishly wishful thinking.

I would need to see the studies. As a general rule, every study has something wrong with how the conclusions are met that may or may not damage their legitimacy.

None of that even matters because *inflicting an unnecessary surgery on a newborn is clearly wrong* regardless of the long-term outcome

On the one I read they made the major mistake of self selection based on men answering an ad that said it was for research about circumcision (who do you think will answer that)

As would mandating that those compelled by a religious faith to be unable to do so would be wrong.

I don't know, there are lots of things we don't let people do to their children even if they have a religious motivation.