Message from @!dammnation3(Liberalist)
Discord ID: 454149925484363776
if people are allowed to operate in their own interests as they see fit, then they get to determine what their own potential is and reach it.
Freedom from genetic disadvantage due to your background?
freedom from other people doing harmful stuff to you. Now what stuff is harmful is another discussion
well its positive rights vs. negative rights
Well
what if you're a communist?
harmful stuff should happen to you.
communists are ideologically wrong, but political belief doesn't justify violence
Why not?
What if they're about to be voted into power?
Civil war is violence.
put the shoe on the other foot, "what if you're a fascist, harmful stuff should happen to you"
Should we not have gone into civil war against the south to destroy slavery?
ok. "What if you believe in slavery, should bad stuff happen to you?"
We shouldn't have invaded the south, just let them have slaves.
@Ape, as a Catholic, I agree. I think that we can say God is good. And so conforming to God's will is good. So our actions ought to conform to God's will. But, I'm curious, how do you think we ought to conform ourselves to God's will?
if they try to instate slavery, and forcibly enslave other people, then yes
then its self defense
Communists are trying to instate communism, and forcibly enslave other people. So while violence against individuals may be beyond the pale, institutional discrimination against communist groups is simply the logical result.
I believe preemptively harming them is not the answer
what is your point?
ok, institutional discrimination against ideologies is different
harming? No, discriminating against to stop them from spreading their ideology? Yes. Not letting them organize into political parties ect.
you are out in the philisophical weeds here, connect it back for me.
So you agree
freedom is not the highest value.
People who value freedom as the highest value are simply opening us up to infiltration by harmful actors.
i agree that you have accurately described a communist.
@Ape, was that question to me?
well that's why we structure our society to prevent harmful actors
Well no, that was to raven
read the federalist papers
Ok, so lets go beyond that.
What if an individual is a harmful actor outside of an ideological sphere?
No, Liberty (IE the freedom from oppression) is the highest value
@CelestialMorningLight ok, so then you shouldn't let people be oppressed by gender identity
we need to destroy gender.
that's the only way to get true freedom.
@Ape It needs to be demonstrated that there *is* any oppression there to begin with
it's clear that there is.