Message from @MatthewHeimbach

Discord ID: 364588390236028928

2017-10-03 01:37:03 UTC  

Now, what do you make of Himmler, who was a clear pagan (at least, i think it's clear) and the so-called Positive Christianity movement?

2017-10-03 01:37:21 UTC  

I've heard that the Führer had contempt for Christianity in private

2017-10-03 01:37:42 UTC  

Positive Christianity as Plank 24 of the NSDAP platform outlined is simply traditionalist Christianity.

The Rosenberg Positive Christian movement was so goofy that Hitler refused to give them official status as a religion in the Reich

2017-10-03 01:38:09 UTC  

The Table Talks, the only source of so called "anti-Christian" beliefs of Hitler, has been proven to be false on several levels in the decades since it was published

2017-10-03 01:38:31 UTC  

You are a godsend

2017-10-03 01:38:46 UTC  

Either Hitler was a liar and a swindler from 1918-onward, or he was a Christian. I don't think he was a regular churchgoer or really fanatically Christian, but he was far from anti-Christian

2017-10-03 01:38:54 UTC  

>The Table Talks
I've noticed that people either regard TT as legitimate or forgery depending entirely on their religious position.

2017-10-03 01:39:10 UTC  

that will be an interesting topic of discussion

2017-10-03 01:39:14 UTC  

I came to them as false even i was an edgy atheist funny enough

2017-10-03 01:40:04 UTC  

Perhaps the most important thing is to see where Hitler got his ideology. Dietrich Eckart, to whom Mein Kampf is written to, said "This war was a religious war, finally one sees that clearly. A war between light and darkness, truth and falsehood, Christ and Antichrist"

2017-10-03 01:40:15 UTC  

Eckart was very Christian, but no fan of the OT

2017-10-03 01:40:25 UTC  

Which isn't out of line with traditional Christian understanding

2017-10-03 01:41:06 UTC  

how did you go from edgy fedora to ortho twp goy

2017-10-03 01:41:27 UTC  

Yeah the OT made me uncomfy until you gave that parable

2017-10-03 01:42:48 UTC  

i hated Deuteronomy

2017-10-03 01:42:49 UTC  

In the same year, the historical validity of remarks in the English and French translations of the table-talk were challenged in a new partial translation by Richard Carrier and Reinhold Mittschang, who went so far as to call them "entirely untrustworthy",[6] suggesting they had been altered by Francois Genoud....Many of the quotations used to support arguments in favor of Hitler's anti-Christianity are derived from the Genoud–Trevor-Roper translation. Carrier argues that no one "who quotes this text is quoting what Hitler actually said." -From an aritcle on the Table Talks, btw

2017-10-03 01:42:55 UTC  

now i'm actually okay with it

2017-10-03 01:43:29 UTC  

what do you make of the 12 Apostles being Jews

2017-10-03 01:43:33 UTC  

were they "decent Jews"?

2017-10-03 01:43:47 UTC  

Only Judas was a Jew, the rest of the Apostles were men from Galilee

2017-10-03 01:44:05 UTC  

John 7:1 "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him."

2017-10-03 01:44:11 UTC  

i thought they were Hebrews? They weren't religious Jews?

2017-10-03 01:44:16 UTC  

Eckart and Hitler shat on Paul big time in Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin.

2017-10-03 01:44:34 UTC  

If Jesus was going home, to Galilee, to be away from "jewry" then His people weren't Jews

2017-10-03 01:44:34 UTC  

wasn't there a big debate in Jerusalem about circumcision? And Peter had to be told that he didn't need to follow the Kosher laws anymore?

2017-10-03 01:45:00 UTC  

How would you describe "Positive christianity", all my knowledge from it comes from Savitri Devi who naturally wrote of it negatively from a pagan perspective, but how would you meaningfully differentiate it from the christianity you practice?

2017-10-03 01:46:02 UTC  

Besides, kikes let the Romans crucify Jesus, while they were living in an ethnarchy and had the duty of enforcing law on their own race.

2017-10-03 01:46:08 UTC  

It's Orthodoxy. The Orthodox symbol is the two headed eagle. One head is the church, one the state, with each having different roles for the good of the body, the people. As Wilhelm Frick said on this "The party stands for positive Christianity. The National Socialist state is absolutely ready to work with the Christian churches, but the solidarity of the churches to the Volk must be a matter of course; that means that the churches must feel bound to the Volk and may never come into opposition to the National Socialist leadership of the state. "

2017-10-03 01:46:30 UTC  

The church must be national, which is why we have Serbian, Russian, Romanian, Greek, Bulgarian etc

2017-10-03 01:46:58 UTC  

yes, i agree. but what about peter and the circumcision/dietary laws?

2017-10-03 01:46:59 UTC  

The authority of the Orthodox church is only found within the nation, other peoples dont have a say. Even if the head of the Russian church hates something a Serb patriarch said, he has no authority to override the national decision

2017-10-03 01:47:01 UTC  

I got into a huge argument

2017-10-03 01:47:05 UTC  

with a catholic

2017-10-03 01:47:06 UTC  

on this

2017-10-03 01:47:14 UTC  

they kept saying it was bad because it was split that way

2017-10-03 01:47:29 UTC  

nationalism vs internationalism

2017-10-03 01:47:39 UTC  

God created the nations, therefore each nation should have its own church

2017-10-03 01:47:57 UTC  

And Peter was corrected, through a church council of dogma in Acts

2017-10-03 01:48:22 UTC  

"“Do you know,” said she, “that even as a child I refused to sing the church hymns that alluded to Jehovah or to Israel, on the ground that I was a German and wanted no foreign religion forced upon me? How I understand your nostalgia for the Olympian Gods as well as for your mother’s old Norse ones! How I do!”

“I am glad you do,” I replied. “Only other National Socialists like ourselves have ever understood how important a part that yearning has played in my whole evolution. But fancy that the exact opposite of our attitude is to be found among some European Aryans! Have you heard of a religious sect in England whose members style themselves as ‘British Israelites’?”


“Well, such a sect exists. The adherents, mind you, are not Jews—although some, of course, might be mixed. But I know of some who are thoroughbred Englishmen—Celts and Anglo-Saxons; Aryans. Only they try to prove—by the most spurious arguments—that they and the whole English nation are descended from some ‘lost tribe’ of Israel. Pure-blooded Aryans trying to make out that they are Jews; wanting to be Jews! Have you ever heard of such disgraceful nonsense as that?”

“Well,” put in Herr H, “they have been taught for over 1,500 years that the Jews are ‘God’s chosen people.’ Can you blame them? As you say yourself, the original crime lies in the adoption of Christianity.”

“The one before the last of the Twenty-Five Points,” said I, “although it states that the Party as such stands for ‘a positive Christianity,’ advocates ‘liberty for all religious denominations in the state, so long as they are not a danger to it, and do not militate against the moral feelings of the Germanic race.” Alfred Rosenberg has tried to explain what ‘positive’ Christianity means, and it appears to me that he has just reduced it to that basic commonsense morality which any Aryan can accept."

2017-10-03 01:49:39 UTC  

where's that from?

2017-10-03 01:50:01 UTC  

Can you weight in on that "basic commonsense morality" bit, knowing a bit about positive christianity, how it was theologically different from regular protestantism?