Oof

Nationalism is inherently collectivist

I always thought that the Spanish had been 'trained' to accept oligarchs

For hundreds and hundreds of years

https://youtu.be/vKb01XLPR7E

This is a good video on the previous concept I linked

Yes. Have you seen Stefan Molyneux's - the death of rome?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qh7rdCYCQ_U

No, will watch soon

Get munchies, it's a loong one. Information heavy.

>Nationalism is inherently collectivist
Nope. If that were true then there couldn't be any individualism.
It's not *inherent* in nationalism, it just so happens that humans tend to form nations by collectivist means rather than individualist means.

Many people throw around the term "inherent" far too much these days, they don't know its meaning.

">Nationalism is inherently collectivist
Nope. If that were true then there couldn't be any individualism.
It's not inherent in nationalism, it just so happens that humans tend to form nations by collectivist means rather than individualist means."

How about : ideas can evolve and what's more, it tends to be a one way street as more freedoms are recognised?

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-a-heedless-and-erratic-old-man-says-north-korea-11882201?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

@Sq crcl Nationalism, despite being pretty much a one-dimensional idea like capitalism, is certainly one of the less defined political ideologies, but I'd say even nationalism can mostly be put in a defined box. Some concepts can vary, but overall the idea shouldn't be able to "evolve" into something that would turn into something new.

That's reserved for multi-dimensional ideas.

Do I sense a partial agreement?

idk, perhaps

I've become allergic to most people's use of the term "inherent".

Ahh, good to know.

Just like people's use of "objective" these days, very similar.

Or "innate" or whatever

All of those concepts are highly misunderstood by a lot of people.

@ETBrooD Can you give an example of a form of "Nationalism" based on Individualism?

Not based on

I criticized your use of "inherent"

Nationalism may or may not lean towards collectivism, but that depends on how it is done by the people making up the ruling class

Putting the interests of the nation will inevitably require that some individual "liberties" are trampled

Most common example is building a wall

No, that's only how humans have been doing it

Nationalism as applied to any intelligent species doesn't have to be collectivist

Can you give a hypothetical example of such form of Nationalism?

I mean it's pretty obvious, you just let people choose their own hierarchies

It's far too complex to work for human nations

You're referring to a Voluntaryist commune, which will dissolve in just a few generations without order

As I said, too complex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism

The order exists though, after consenting to a hierarchy

Their descendants might not consent to that hierarchy, then what?

That's why it's complex and can't be done with human societies

This could change if or when applied to different life forms