The viewers lost the most in that "debate"

Depends on how you decide won if we're going on general consensus then he didn't win

Even JF thinks Sargon won and he doesn't much care for Sargon. One thing I did realize though, is that the "alt right" has changed classical liberals for the better, odd as that may be.

Yeah that's the thing though Sargon didn't smash him in the debate the audience did

@Samaritan™ General consensus of who?

The audience

@Samaritan™ That Vaush won? XD

That he lost

Then we agree that Sargon won 😉

both with his arguments and how people felt

If you use the general consensus of the audience as the deciding metric then Sargon won

I use the arguments Sargon made vs Vaush's arguments

Even if sargon only drank his tea during that "debate" and didn't say a single word he would have won

Vaush didn't set out what he meant to, Sargon spoke to the crowd and Vaush didn't support his position or his own arguments, not to mention completely failing to refute any of Sargon's

Sargon didn't make them very well because he was being shouted down and good boy Sargoy choose not to go all IBS on them

@Samaritan™ He made them fine, Vaush was simply disengenuous.

He's clearly a sophist without an ounce of real debate skill or dexterity.

Vaush shot himself in the head argument wise when he started saying Sargon was alt-right and so on

Imao

He isnt' remotely charitable, Sargon is all that

Precisely, Vaush lost because his ***ARGUMENTS WERE POOR***

He refuted his OWN position multiple times

He isn't and that's a negative for him but that isn't because of anything Sargon did its because of how obnoxious and dishonest he is

He defeated himself in other words

"Yeah it IS subjective!" therefore he's not actually arguing for positions people hold, but what others think of them.

@Samaritan™ Partly because Sargon was capable of defending himself. He lead Vaush down many paths very subtly and caught his bullshit before he could spring a trap. Sargon kept Vaush on his back foot the entire debate with barely an ounce of effort.

Because he drove home all his point with clarity and simplicity. It might appear that Vaush only defeated himself, but that's not true. Sargon just had the right of it and could immediately refute the basic claims Vaush made.

@Jack of Trades pp small

I feel like I have to see the first 40 minutes of the debate to be able to say anything about that but I really didn't see Sargon putting Vaush on his backfoot like at all

@King Canuck Yes, Vaush has a small PP i agree

Really seemed if Sargon was always on his just because of Vaushs flurry attacks

Sargons arguments where right but he didn't present them very well under fire

I disagree

Vaush was shouting and frantic BECAUSE he was on his back foot. He's a fool and he demonstrated it.

No he was just overbearing as a tactic to stop Sargon from being able to refute him

He isn't educated very well, he's just a smug superior fucker with a few ounces of rhetoric.

@Samaritan™ Because he knew he was defeated.

Hence why he talked for like 5 mins straight and then Sargon tried to respond

And he went ***SHUT THE FUCK UP SARGOY I'M NOT DONE YET*** and then continued to talk for another 3 mins unopposed

That is the tacitc of someone that *knows they have lost*.

Sargoyim shouldn't have let him speak to him like that. Period.