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In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:1‭-‬2 KJV

but you have to admit though, it is weird that it states birds came before land animals

Earth is without form, i.e Earth is referred to as the entire plain

Not just physical Earth

but the birds..

"but muh science, muh science" -> conveniently forgets that science works on a set of pressupositions and is thus actually empiricism and is not the only way we can gain knowledge

kek

i guess math dont exist or real,

@Bogatyr Bogumir does science not demonstrate that land animals came before birds?

like we got methods of dating this shit

my favorite is radiocarbon

❤ radiocarbon ❤

science still doesn't lead to certainty

wait are we still on the topic of if science disproves religion

i think so

I don't get what you guys are saying

are you saying science is wrong about the order life evolved on Earth?

@Riley Not really, im mostly pointing out that science isnt the only path to reliable or even accurate knowledge and one cant be a pure empiricist without simply denying math as existing in any way shape or form, and thus being useless.

Math is basically philosophy, thus we can get reliable knowledge from philosophy as well, the other routes, not only empiricism which can only answer a very very very narrow set of questions that have to be immediately measurable. (not to mention completely accept the pressupositions of materialism etc. required for this to work in the first place)

I in general approach the old T as a metaphor, im somewhat sure that catholic doctrine also says to not read this literally. Then there are fundumentalists that will say to read it literally in which case im pretty sure they are actually going against christian teaching in doing so.

im just now getting a little deeper into christian theology and the way you are meant to approch the bible, and all the doctrines etc.

@Bogatyr Bogumir there are many things meant literally, and many meant figuratively in the old testament. In both cases you should take away the moral teachings anyways.

Deuteronomy 21:19

**Deuteronomy 21:19 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**

```Dust


<19> then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. ```

Deuteronomy 21:20

**Deuteronomy 21:20 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**

```Dust


<20> They shall say to the elders of his town, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." ```

Deuteronomy 21:21

**Deuteronomy 21:21 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**

```Dust


<21> Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid. ```

@Eoppa yea...morals

@Riley well yes, this is meant to be taken as literal. A child who is so deep seated in rebellion that he is physically/financially damaging his parents without remorse, back then that would literally tear the nation and family apart. You quote the ceremonial law, which God specified would not fit us today, and pretend it debunks anything

Typical of anti theists

it just doesnt seem very loving or forgiving

@Riley go live in 2000 BC and talk then, otherwise bring relevant philosophy or theology

whats wrong with what i said

I pointed out that the morals of the bible suck ass

more specifically the old T

@Eoppa @Eoppa @Eoppa

lole

You haven't?

oh is stoning kids moral?

I elaborated it would literally tear the nation apart, and you said "so what :("

If the kids hate God, their parents, and refuse any other options