Message from @Death in June
Discord ID: 599144906363109376
the key difference is marxist power dynamics (oppressed/oppressor) and identitarianism
liberalism without those 2 things is very different from what we have today
the oppressed/oppressor dynamic is a feature of liberalism and has been since before marxism even existed
don't agree
think sargon but left of centre
marx's class analysis was influenced by liberal philosophy
influenced maybe, but it's not the same
of course it's not the same
to me, liberalism is basically the opposite of those 2 things
Also for the record there's a middle ground between the US being world police and the US being Switzerland and the world getting fucked without us
liberalism is there to enforce equal treatment under the law, and to compensate for being dealt a bad hand
compensating for being dealt a bad hand means that you are not limiting egalitarianism to equal treatment under the law
I mean in terms of universal health care and that kind of thing
In the semi modern age like mid 1900s liberalism and marxism have been driven by the same 2 things profit and some sort of freedom or equality
social liberalism already opened the door to the sort of egalitarianism we see from progressives by prescribing political action to rectify inequalities that transcend legal inequalities
They are strongly related
one thing that truly baffles me is how identitarianism became synonomous with liberalism. why can't people see that's a backslide?
that isn't to say that progressivism is entirely liberal, but it mostly is, and the illiberal strands carry the power they due by virtue of their proximity to ruling class ideology
well that's still an identitarian idea. if everybody is equal under the law, black/white/gay/etc then we don't need these grand scales-on-thumb actions like affirmative action etc
Also for the record calling yourself a classic liberals is a special way to say literally conservative
if you're for striving for equality of opportunity and you recognize that inequality of opportunity stems from an idententarian basis then doesn't it logically follow
but if everybody is equally entitled to universal healthcare, free education, etc, then there's nothing to fix
I don't call myself a classic liberal
because the idea is that these groups still face inequalities of opportunity by virtue of their identity
social liberal maybe? anti-identitarian liberal?
Yeah but I just wanted to say class liberal as a term is retarded
Phone autocorrect is too
I don't think identity should play literally any role in politics
why
because skin color doesn't matter
Well identity isn't just race
"conservatives" are just the centrist libs of your parent's generation and the progressives of your grandparent's generation
or if you're gay or whatever
doesn't matter
well I've gone from literal card carrying member of the greens to voting one nation
but I'm still liberal 😄
well if you're getting at race (which isn't just about skin color) it certainly acts as a proxy for things that are important
I don't agree it's a proxy for anything
it's a proxy for genetic clusters
well I acknowledge racial difference in IQ ala charles murray but think it plays no role in public policy
just a fact