Message from @ManAnimal

Discord ID: 600524245524807693


2019-07-16 03:05:51 UTC  

the catholic church funded them

2019-07-16 03:06:13 UTC  

Not all of these communities have a benefactor.

When communism works, you typically see it in connection with hyper-religious communities.

2019-07-16 03:06:13 UTC  

and the church was propped up by what they took from others

2019-07-16 03:06:16 UTC  

@yearspastmatter Ramzpaul is Alt Right. He is a White Nationalist and at the very least interested in Third Position (listen to his discussion with Cultured Thug he talks about this) he is just more careful with how he presents himself.

2019-07-16 03:06:28 UTC  

communism DOESN"T work

2019-07-16 03:06:38 UTC  

it just moves resources around like robin hood

2019-07-16 03:06:52 UTC  

without the rich there is no one to steal from

2019-07-16 03:06:59 UTC  

@ManAnimal - Tons of cults have done the same, and made it work. At least for a little while.

Communes have been a thing in the United States for decades, as have worker owned businesses (more syndicalist than communist though).

2019-07-16 03:06:59 UTC  

and the system collapses

2019-07-16 03:07:01 UTC  

always

2019-07-16 03:07:10 UTC  

Homeland still exists. Worker owned.

2019-07-16 03:07:37 UTC  

understood but the fact remains these are always parasitic groups

2019-07-16 03:07:42 UTC  

Homeland as a grocery store closely reflects what you might see in a communist system.

That's not an endorsement, just an example of communism in practice.

2019-07-16 03:08:01 UTC  

that cannot sustain themselvees withut an outside sponsor

2019-07-16 03:08:10 UTC  

@Scale_e Think of it as a scale. On one end you have NeoCon and on the other end you have Alt Right, then between Alt Right and NeoCon is Alt Lite. Its pretty simple to understand.
Alt Lite is a term to describe people who fit where I just explained they fit.

2019-07-16 03:08:14 UTC  

My issue with communism is that people never scale it up incrementally, and implementation at a large scale always seems to come with massive human rights abuses.

2019-07-16 03:08:18 UTC  

@Arthur Grayborn these communes you describe... aren’t communist. They are cooperatives existing within a capitalist country. They work because they can still engage in the capitalism that exists around them.

2019-07-16 03:08:35 UTC  

it cannot be scaled incrementallly

2019-07-16 03:08:53 UTC  

National Socialism, isnt socialism (as in Stalin/Lenin socialism) change my mind

2019-07-16 03:08:56 UTC  

@Scale_e - Cooperatives dominating an economic system, with more central management, would effectively turn the system into a "socialist" economic system.

2019-07-16 03:08:57 UTC  

because those providing the inpute will always divert that input

2019-07-16 03:09:14 UTC  

Yeah you could say its like Nordic country socialism, or even some DNC members

2019-07-16 03:09:26 UTC  

bill gates or steve jobs wouldn't have invented computers without individual incentives

2019-07-16 03:09:28 UTC  

But I mean like stalin socialism

2019-07-16 03:09:30 UTC  

@Vir It is a form of Socialism, but its non-Marxist socialism. Socialism doesn't have to be a bad word, its not Communism.

2019-07-16 03:09:51 UTC  

inevitaby people just do the min they can and get by

2019-07-16 03:10:38 UTC  

you can't force a person to create or improve if they don't beleive in the fairy tale

2019-07-16 03:10:40 UTC  

My point is that there are examples of syndicalism, communism, and socialism that nobody minds. Few people have an issue with it.

It's more when people try to scale it up, they usually do a shit job of it.

For every functional state owned utility, there are two more than are run like shit because political pandering becomes more critical to job promotion than qualification or capability.

2019-07-16 03:11:07 UTC  

but you can incentivize them based on what they want themselves which they can purchae with capital

2019-07-16 03:11:42 UTC  

i see where you are going but those are not the same

2019-07-16 03:11:53 UTC  

they aren't systems of economics

2019-07-16 03:12:00 UTC  

they are systems of cooperation

2019-07-16 03:12:03 UTC  

Socialism = State owns the means of production.

Communism = Socialism, but with less central control and less inequality (IE - Your manager's apartment is no bigger than yours)

2019-07-16 03:12:11 UTC  

it's more than that

2019-07-16 03:12:18 UTC  

that is just the theory

2019-07-16 03:12:34 UTC  

it's about the DECISION of allocation

2019-07-16 03:12:46 UTC  

what type of factory to build and when?

2019-07-16 03:12:50 UTC  

what to make?

2019-07-16 03:12:54 UTC  

@Ϻ14ᛟ But what does that scale represent? The positions you describe are completely different ideologies. It’s not a sliding scale of “less conservative” to “more conservative”.
The only possible rational behind that scale could be “The SJW types hate one end a little bit more than the other end.”

2019-07-16 03:12:56 UTC  

where to build it?

2019-07-16 03:12:57 UTC  

The state is just a means of social organization.

No different than a corporation, except in the scope it's allowed to operate. The state prevents others from hijacking certain state roles by means of socially sanctioned violence.