he's just going to post bias links and not engage

because the amount of sources is more important than the content of them

@Muten Which only further strengthens our point that they aren't able to provide any actual evidence. Just links to opinion pieces or strawman articles.

This is an issue of fundamental moral conviction

it feels bad to be correct wtf

We will not agree on this

unless we agree on extremely basic things we don;t agree on

I have conviction to what I believe to be right, I just have no conviction to things that are false, and if what I believe is proven false

well then I lose conviction

@Tonight at 11 - DOOM Not agreeing is fine. Them agreeing isn't really required.

@Raintola Isn't this just being pedantic by splitting hairs? You can say that guns don't kill people, because it's the bullet that causes injury, but you can't expect people to thin kyou're arguing in good faith when the fear of prison keeps people from committing crimes and it is only a criminal mindset that ignores that.

It's preferable

https://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/3-reasons-why-deterrence-doesnt-work/

Salutations gentlemen

Just got back from a pub

@Jake the Exile what do you mean pedantic? If we aren't pedantic then what's the point of the argument?

Some woman more than twice my age was trying it on

@Jake the Exile Hardly. No one says "Guns don't kill people because it's the bullet that causes injury." Punishment being a deterrent may have some effect, but based on Ninja's own sources, most of the people in prison already aren't in a normal mindset, so they likely don't fear the punishment to begin with.

Fucking smoker wine aunt

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-28/prison-reform-law-doesn-t-go-far-enough

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/03/12/young-black-and-male-in-america/a-failing-criminal-justice-system

https://theweek.com/articles/651722/americas-prison-system-inhumane-heres-why

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/aando/prisons.html

@Jake the Exile Even then, we're not talking about whether they fear going to jail, we're talking about if the threat of punishment actually prevents the crime from happening. I can fear lots of things, but fear doesn't necessarily prevent me from doing them.

oy, trolling is fine, spamming is gay though. Cease

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-prisons-idUSN1841666120071119

@NinjaQuick

The point is to remove the criminal element from society not to remove the criminal element for the person, because removing it from the person requires alot more resources, time, and infrastructure

Hahahaha

Hahahahahaha

Hahahahabahahababababababahahahah

So retarded.

@Raintola Then what you need is a second layer of correction, something that will be effective in changing the people whose mindset is "fuck da po-leese." But you can't say that law enforcement shouldn't exist because it doesn't stop SOME crime. There needs to be a negative reinforcement against bad behavior so more people aren't raised in a criminally permissive mindset to begin with.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendments/amendment-viii

well it's also punitive justice for the wrong doer but you don't care about justice so why bother bringing that up

Holy fuck, NinjaQuick whines about the Justice System like SMG whines about his foreskin

@Jake the Exile that's more on the individual tho

you can't change gang culture with government intervention

Law enforcement presence is a greater deterrent of crime than prison.

<:thunk:462282216467333140>

@Muten Well then you try church intervention.