You can't possibly prove that these people are the same

The ones calling for closed border enforcement and the ones crying against statism while also calling for closed borders

Chances are the latter are a fringe group in the first place

Cause it sounds stupid

nah despotism is based

no, when Ben shapiro or his allies call for an end to what they call "SJW culture" and a return to more tradional values he always refuses the only way such sociatal change could occure, statism and Illiberalism

Whilst he endorses the illiberal state of israel

That is galaxy brained

But it's not the way to get there, because you can't "enforce traditional values"

People do what they wanna do, go ahead and prove me wrong.

for hundreds, maybe thousands of years traditional values were enforced through moral values and education, it's only when the media, government and education system stopped supporting them did traditional values become more and more fringe

Traditional values were not enforced, they were neccessary for survival

they very much were enforced, if not by the state then by society

the same way modern Progressive values are being enforced

Dude, you think people didn't cheat on their partners in medieval Europe?

thats not my point

things like drag kids etc for example are a symptom of Social liberalism and wouldn't of been tolerated in say the 1950s since at that point Tradional socially conservatives values were dominent in society

It was tolerated long before the 20th century

not in the mainstream it wasn't

It was a privilege of the upper class

Dude, even fashion reflects it

What do you think all these men dressing up and putting makeup on was?

i dont care about what rich urbanites were doing

I'm talking about everyday people

But my point is that it's a result of wealth

As society becomes wealthier, which it does, people express themselves more freely and openly, in all classes

It's inevitable, it's always been the case

that doesn't make it a good thing

That's not your point though, you're talking about "enforcing traditional values"

I'm telling you they weren't traditional to begin with

The elite never cared about this shit

again i dont care about what rich urbanites were doing

So if you ask for statist intervention in favor of traditionalism, you're looking in the wrong place

Because the state is run BY the elites

They'll always pander to their own desires

Degeneracy started at the top first

that wouldn't make it inevitable, presumable you would get rid of said elites first

if we're talking about the future that is

So you want to have an endless cycle of elites getting killed and replaced?

That's the stupidest idea ever

you're assuming that all of them agreed in those types of ideas